To all our friendly clans, I would just like to inform you that our new server is up and running: IP = 8.9.11.153:16567

Three map rotation currently set for Mashtuur City, Strike at Karkand & Sharqui Peninsula.

It would be cool if you visited us to help it get established.

Thanks,

=FaRT= skutaboy.

INF only?

cool i like a bit of sharqi now and again:)

ooh mashtuur and sharqi me likey

Thanks Gooch for turning up almost instantly....

It was my first time on it too.
As far as I/O, I'm not too sure as yet. There were vehicles on the Sharqui map and I think there will be at Mashtuur too. Hopefully no vehicles at Karkand because they do my head in.

BTW where is youre server based ? coz the pings were pretty shitty?

not that i had lag issues (but there was only 3 on at the time

also i dont mind vehicles now and then

I think we opted for a Chicago based server. Its a USA based clan remember!

A few regular forum attendees did a ping test over variuos cities to see what average we could get and Chicago came out best. New York would have been the best option for us Europeans but to be honest, I wasn't suffering from any lag at all.

Thanks once again Gooch, it was a long round.

oooh will have to drop by for a round or two... at least if I get shafted I can always blame it on the ping

Ha ha Monkey, thats always been my excuse.
BTW, I was looking at BF2ccClient programs on the net and viewing the screen shots..........your name was on one screenshot

How do you mean my name was on a screenshot?? what screenshot!?

:s

Select the Player Grid screen shot.

http://www.bf2cc.com/screens.htm

well bugger me... the old [TKF] server.. back when BF2cc was shiny and new (now I feel old )

1 kill and 12 deaths... shame on you 1st sgt monkeyfiend, shame on you!

I would not bother with this server, they ban people that are good so they can stat pad themselves. They blame people who use the chopper good, then ban and remove their forum accounts. Check out the site I put up to document this, Fart Clan Practices

Avoid these guys, they are bad news, bad admins and bad sports!

An interesting read.. although I personally don't play BF2 anymore I was a Psb/Pbbans admin. I can't really suggest why you've had problems with fart clan - we've played against them a long time ago and never had any issues with any of their members or servers.

A couple of points though... I've no idea why certain individuals were banned such as clisk was, whether this was for breaking server rules or for suspected hacks. It's possible they had looked up this ban and thought it was the player in question (in fact without seeing the IP/guid of the player known as clisk I couldn't tell for sure whether it's the same person or a namespoofed account)

Obviously the nature of your site (registering a .info to put a clan down) is not going to be the most unbiased source of info. I saw a couple of comments like the ban section being removed - however it does appear to be there again. Also for server rankings, new releases such as me2 and bfbc2 have caused bf2 number to dimish further.

That being said it's been a long time since I've played with fart and probably don't know half their members or how they handle themselves, so the complaints may be just.

However I've always looked on it as the clan members pay for the servers (quite substantial amounts) and adminning a server is never particularily fun work, so perhaps on occasions clans can be cut some slack - we've caught our fair share of hackers in our team, but equally we've made a couple of mistakes too .

On the flipside if clanservers are truly poorly adminned, this administration will cause the servers to fail without the necessity of hatesites

i have played with the =FaRT= clan for quite a while and do know many of their current members. i have never had any problems with their admins. tho i have heard a few complaints from some previous members. their Mash server is usually full, so they have to watch it closely to make sure it stays fair for everybody. i dont know what particular problems you have with them, but good luck with whatever it is ur doing

I am not an admin nor a member of FART, so I don't actually know why these guys were banned, just an interested observer who plays there and has a comment. I need not outline the situation because really you only need to visit their website and watch their video, they do a good job explaining what they do.

With that said; point #1: Spawn raping without intent to capture flags is allowed on some servers, but there are many that do not allow it. FART happens not to allow it and it is a valid rule that a server can have if they so choose, so FART specifically has the right to have this rule if they wish to. I notice that SM no longer hosts BF2 but it seems that when they did, they didn't allow spawn raping either. To wit: When Quasi-evil's crew is on MEC they go straight for the MEC tank, and take it directly to south gas, and spawn rape there(ostensibly, without capturing) until the blackhawk is shot down so they can steal it, no matter how long it takes. Stealing the chopper so you can whore it even when on MEC is of course legal and effective and I salute the ruthlessness of it. What's not legal is parking a tank on the spawn and killing people without capturing. As far as I know, FART never actually noticed this spawn raping taking place, so don't get me wrong- since I don't actually know why these guys were banned, it's entirely possible that they have a valid complaint over their ban; but it's only fair that people who read this know that Quasi-evil et al are willing to break posted server rules when it's convenient for them to do so. Hey, it's OK to break rules when it's a squad working together for a good cause, right?

Point #2: As far as being kicked for being "too good", let's just say that while teamwork is great and all, I don't know that flying around with 3 engineers hover fixing is anything to brag about. Has anyone noticed that Bad Company 2 is apparently going to eliminate hover fixing? If they do, and if that continues with BF3, it would be interesting to see if these guys stick to BF2 as the years pass just so they can rape with their BF2 blackhawk.

We used to play Infantry servers where indeed spawn raping wasn't allowed... towards the end we had an automated system that warned and eventually kicked people, which made things a lot less subjective. As for breaking rules like this, assuming the rules are posted during loading or as message spam, if you don't agree with them then it's your choice to either play by them or to leave and join another server.

If the rules are odd (I remember a no swearing, no dis'ing christianity and no f2000 or grenade or GL server ) then most people play elsewhere and the server dies. If the rules are straight-forward like "No spawnraping carriers" then people can play on a level playing field with others whom wish to spawnrape joining servers where it's allowed.

Either way I'm inclined to look doubtfully on the info posted on that clan practices site as by it's very nature is incredibly biased and potentially misleading and we don't have any counter arguments. That being said a clans responsibilty is to run their servers and not to publically justify their actions on 3rd party sites. (such as clan practices or here)

In essence clans/servers will be popular or die-out depending on how well they're adminned. Creating sites to put down clans/server seems like a waste of time (as it's unecessary) and seems a little childish

its a game... seriously dont like something go elsewhere.

heh.. also I've been having a read over the fart clan ban appeals page and to me everything looks perfectly fine - couple of banning mistakes (which happens with all clans) that were rectified on appeal and the rest appeared to be legitimate bans that were explained.

Anyway.. I think that about sums up this topic.

It is the manner in which they went about it. It is not smart to abuse users, we went on their site and had a long discussion, then they ban us. They deleted the 30+ thread post that we had a civil discourse on. The only reason for that is to keep the truth out of the public's view. It shows what they are made of and I don't think people should be subjected to their little behavior malfunctions. I will keep posting at Fart Clan dot info until a public apology is issues or the server is down.

If you visit any site that I have posted on, there is no rebuttal of fact from Fart, just name calling, so what does that tell you?

There are some posts about there (maybe deleted by now) of Fart admins saying they would not have banned us, but it is not up to them.

You don't need to fire rockets in to outer space to understand the what this clan is all about: They want good players off so they can make themselves feel better.

As far as banning people for being too good, just check out Clisk and Haw8. Those are the last two unless Fart censored the forums again.

As far as server rank, it is relative, so if the population drops on a game, all servers hosting that game feel the pinch. So their drop from 13 to 30 is not because of some other game, it is because they mistreat users and I am bringing that to everyone's attention.

they pay for the server so they can do whatever they wish. Get over it!

I recommend you find yourself a girlfriend.

Anyone who goes out of their way to set up a hatesite has:

a ) Too much time on their hands
b ) A chip on their shoulder
c ) A pizza face

If you have a bad experience with a clan, just move on and find a new server to play on. Simple.

I agree with 5, there are so many servers out there I don't understand why you don't do the adult thing, drop it and move on.

If you google haw8 you will find he is banned in at least 3-4 other places for hacking. Your claim that he is "too good" paints you in a suspicious light. And why did you pick out only those two names? I've been reading their forum for over 2 years and there have always been people banned from time to time without what you would call "an explanation". HOWEVER - this does not support you in any way. Why? Because they have a policy of not publicly calling out hackers and they don't allow anyone else to do so either. Naturally, this policy does of course lead to people being banned for hacking and then having appeals denied without explanation, but there are very good and obvious reasons for them(or indeed, any server) to not publicly discuss cheaters nor allow anyone else to either. Obviously you are not familiar with server administration or you might know these reasons. In any event, you pointing this out is nothing new and doesn't add to your own credibility.

There are plenty of non-fart players on their servers that consistently own fart members and do not get banned. In fact, there are at least 3 non-fart member regular players there that are solidly the top skilled players on the server. Maybe even the top 5 are non fart but I can only think of those 3 at the moment. Point is, owning fart guys day in and day out is not a bannable offense regardless of what you might like to think.

I personally wonder if your real reason for being upset is because you can't find enough servers you can blackhawk-rape on. Infantry only servers are obviously out since there won't be a chopper for you, and maps with jets or AA vehicles don't meet your needs either since you can't hover fix through a salvo of 4 AA missles. Mashtuur might be the only map that meets your needs; and not even all them work for you since some may be too high ping, some may be infantry only, some may be a different mod, etc. Bad Company 2 holds no hope for you since there won't be hover fixing in it either.

Not that I really have enough information here to say whether this is what FART did or not, but I've always believed that sometimes its ok to ban someone for what I'd call, making your server less fun for everyone. Sometimes this might play out as a person or persons who always come on and their play is either so good, or they all gang up on one team that they make the server so one-sided that everyone leaves.
I see this as a perfectly legit reason to get rid of some guys. You can't run a good server if your server keeps emptying out. Of course this can come across as a grey area, as it's easy to be viewed as kicking people so they aren't better then you, but sometimes it needs to be done.


as a former admin of a few games, including BF2, it seems obvious to me that anyone posting on here against FART, don't have the first clue about being an admin.

On top of my above statement, you could add that FART actually PAY for their server. I always find it hilarious that guys will come on forums and act like they can tell a clan how to admin their own server. Fine, go on the forum, point out your issue, bitch a little maybe if they seem unresonable, but then move on.

i get the kicking if someone's actions are ruining the game for everyone, but with bf2 it was fairly striaghtforward to include conditions that cover specifics that make the game not fun in the server rules, which for the most part helps make things less personal and subjective.

Otherwise I'd end up kicking magik5 every round for making my game less fun

I've been banned from many a server for so-called aimbots. Generally the only way to take that is as a compliment and move on.

Well I thank quasi_evil for bringing this topic to everyone's attention. You've successfully made FaRt look good, while making yourself look childish and bitter

it appears that he has done the same on several other sites with the same responses. if i am his daddy i will tell his mom to take his comp away before he makes the whole family look gay(and that i was drunk that night but i'm sure it was fun ).

Hey Monkey, feels kinda strange being here again and hope you and Foxx are well as with the rest of your motley crew. ;-)

Firstly, let me apologise to you and =SM= for this petty tirade that you obviously don't need nor care about which has been dumped on your forum. I am not going to get too involved with this matter because as far as we (the =FaRT= clan) are concerned, its done and dusted. We don't need to justify our actions to every man in the street after every ban etc.

Basically, we have rules like any other decent server out there. We don't ban without warnings and these guys were warned many times for breaking rules (not for being 'too good'). We captured lots of video of these guys continually spawn raping without trying to capture flags as a squad. We also witnessed mines, C4, ammo packs, Medic packs, kitchen sinks, old bicycles etc etc etc being tossed out of the helo in places of no importance. Yes, we are aware that we cannot blame the pilot for these actions carried out by his squad but where do you draw the line? It is in actual fact, stat-padding!

Because of these guys actions, we now have scrolling text ingame stating, *** The Blackhawk is not a stat-padding machine - Cap flags ***

Its a real shame these guys are behaving like picked on school kids but they brought it upon themselves. Its our server that WE pay for and its our right to uphold the rules the best we can. We have held a top 20 position in Gametrackers World Rankings for a good time now, surely we are doing something right?


So once again, Sorry to Monkey and the great =SM= clan for this being brought here.
I wish you guys would get into BF2 again for some good afternoon battles. Maybe when BF3 is released we shall see you again?

Thanks all,

skuta.

hey skuta

Yeah, the guy came across as an asshat anyway. On the upside if he carries on advertising his site, it'll make you guys look good and him look like an arse

Although BF2 is out the window for me, a few people are getting bad company 2 and a server will be here on release day, so could maybe sort out a game or two there

Let me know the IP address etc when you get up and running and I will forward that to our forum.
Great to chat to you guys again and thanks for your continued support and help. I personally get fed up with these dudes thinking they know it all.
BTW, that haw8 guy earned something like 16,000 points in less than 20 days. Possible, but backs up our 'other' evidence. These guys need to become admins and see what its really like out there!

skuta. (still hurting from that last scrim).

Again, everyone misses the simple point because they don't do the research and/or they just attack me personally.

I spent a significant amount of time to understand the rules, a 30+ thread post was made then we were banned anyway and Fart removed our 30+ thread post and deleted my forum account. Do you support censorship? Do you think this treatment is fair/good? I am not going to move on. I have as much time and as much money as I need. It is the principle. My post on the Fart forum asking for a rule clarification was civil, and as such I was thanked by a Fart admin for posting in a civil manner. I would direct you to the post, but it was censored/deleted. I have a copy of it and will post it soon on fartclan.info.

The video that we posted on youtube was taken before the Fart forum post asking for a rule clarification and the change in our game play. We have no idea why we were actually banned because no one has ever told us, nor could we do a ban appeal post because my forum account was censored/deleted. Why would that happen after being complimented for my past civil posts. Maybe skutaboy wants to shed some light on why I was banned and why my forum account was censored, but probably not. When I was actually banned I was on foot, in front of the Mosque after the chopper was shot down. You know that chopper that everyone claims is invincible with 3 engineers in the back, yep it was actually shot down. Go up on Unemanarmy's youtube page, you will see several videos of him doing the same stuff and Fart members stat padding by dropping endless mines out of the BH, EVEN ON TOP OF BUILDINGS. So if we were banned for stat padding, they need examine themselves internally. If the videos are gone/censored, let me know I downloaded them as I suspect once people see them Fart will censor them. Bottom line, this is hypocritical.

Maniac, what proof do you have of Haw8 being a hacker? Screen shot? Video? Nope, just some other places that banned him, so what. People get accused all the time of this because of poor players. There was someone who posted earlier in this thread that they were banned for admins thinking he was using an aimbot.

If you want to talk childish what is the personal attacks? Pizza face? Really, how old are you 13? I don't think I have heard anyone even use those words since 6 grade. Then someone goes out and finds pictures, for what, I have no dispute with you. I have done nothing to you, what is your motivation? Talk about too much time on your hands. Why not present an actual argument?

Fido, I am 37 years old so I don't think my mommy or daddy is going to save Fart by taking away my computer.

I am not surprised Skutaboy does not want to have an actual discussion, as Fart is in the wrong. People in the wrong who are incapable of change do not want to have a discussion. The fact is that I was never personally warned or kicked, just straight to ban even after posting a 30+ thread forum post. We changed our game play, a Fart admin that was commander complimented our changes. Like I said, go look at Unemanarmy's youtube page, it has much video footage of the stuff you are claiming we did (which we did not do after the post, in fact JP told people not to spawn as resupply or if someone did to stop dropping mines constantly). I believe in one post Unemanarmy made then deleted, he actually said that he did not think we should have been banned, but there was nothing he could do about it.

If I look like an bitter asshat after getting an unearned ban, getting censored and fighting back against bad admins then so be it. The public has a right to know. The adult thing to do is expose them, not walk away. Walking away is the coward approach. If everyone took that tact, then how would any injustices be fixed, people would be too busy stepping to fight for righteous resolutions to problems.

I will look forward to carrying on this conversation in an adult manner, please refrain from the personal attacks as they add nothing to the discussion and in fact only diminish to poster of the attack...

I've always keen on arguing about anything vigorous debate, but first a caveat emptor: if Fart want this topic closed, that is their prerogative. It's every clans choice whether or not to make info pertaining to bans and appeals publicly accessible, to make final rulings with/without disclosing this on their site. It's certainly not appropriate for them to have to go to third party sites (especially clan sites) to defend their actions. A clan has no obligation to share its operations or decisions publicly, therefore it cannot be considered a form of censure. So let us know.

I must first ask what is your ultimate point behind your site? I doubt you expect to be unbanned, more likely you're seeking retribution of sorts (by having a detrimental effect on their server popularity)

The out of game actions of single person (even one with a website) do not affect a clan and game server, regardless if they are positive or negative. If I read your site and it was an unknown clan targeted I would play on their server and form my own opinions, unless there was unbiased evidence. Likewise if a random person recommended a server, I'd again judge it for myself. Perhaps if a friend whose opinion I trusted warned me of a clan, I'd be more cautious, but the warnings and criticism of an unknown internet user carry as much merit as those emails telling me someone in Nigeria wants to send me a stack of cash The exception is if a clan has a very good/very bad reputation from many independent firsthand sources it would carry weight, but surely if this clan is bad as you say, you'd be better to advise people to go there and see for themselves rather than trying to force your biased opinions on everyone?

I'll choose to ignore all the comments regarding the details of your ban as the sources are not objective or impartial. I'll sum it up as "you joined a server, played in a certain way, got banned by the admins". They say it was a form of stat padding hence breaking the rules, whereas you disagree. The final judgement comes down on the side of those admins though, since they are the ones that have the final say on how their rules should be interpreted as they pay rather substantial sums for the server that you're visiting for free.

I've already covered your mention of censorship initially. Regarding your rather revolutionary toned penultimate paragraph, It's not like you've described an injustice forced upon yourself, such as a stranger on the street punching you in the head - an act where walking away doesn't solve the initial problem and potentially leads to the same happening to others, so warning people or indeed intervention is appropriate.

The reason why walking away is not cowardly in regards to a clan/server is because joining is a voluntary action, you chose to join and it didn't work out, walking away is taking a positive action. If the server really was bad and everyone walked away the server would be empty, it would die and the clan would likely follow. Conversely I don't see setting up a hate site as being courageous

Your scenario is more equivalent to voluntary picking up a nice lady in a bar, (let's call her "Ms. Fart") voluntarily accompanying her back to her house (let's call it "The server") then after a while perhaps doing/saying something she doesn't like, for which she then kicks you out, telling you 'not to come back'. You maybe try to appeal your case the next day, but she's not swayed. Now... Instead of walking away and either reflecting on your actions or just writing her off as being a 'total bitch', your hate website would be the equivalent of erecting signposts outside her house to warn off other potential suitors that she is indeed a bitch while at the same time insisting that she comes out in front of the neighbours (other websites) to justify her throwing you out.

Finally, remember the old adage "there's no such thing as bad publicity"

Guess you might take a while to reply though, I notice your site has mysteriously vanished - those damn interweb hackers can be right bastards

hey skuta! cant wait to see ya on the field! i like how this guy has made your server look even better and our forums more active
quasi, i dont think FaRT needs your mommy or daddy to save them(they are probably the FaRT admins who banned you).
if the FaRT admins were doing such a bad job, why the hell is their damn server always full and i cant join!!!!

wow nice post monkey!


@quasi.. do you put money in to the FART clan server?
do you have a server of your own?

My guess is, that the answer to both of those is no....................

If I lived over there in the states, I could pick up your donation personally. Maybe someone else could to save you the hassle?

Admittedly not on topic, but I couldn't resist that dig at magik

LOL amazing

Nice photoshop skills there. I like to dabble too...

Monkeyfiend, thanks for the thoughtful reply. I agree with the some of your post, although I disagree in some areas. My ultimate goal is to either bring the Fart server down or receive an apology and an unban. Will I ever play on Fart again, of course not, I would not give them the time of day, but I am obviously doing this on principle. I have been very clear on this point. Like I have said, I went out of my way to understand the rules and modify my play to meet those rules. This is evidenced by the post on the Fart forum that was deleted and the change of play on the server that was complimented by a Fart admin. Skutaboy himself thanked me for coming to the forums and posting. I have a copy of that and when I get around to it I will post it on my fart clan website. I have not had time to post another blog entry there because I have been active on your and other forums. I just do not feel like servers should treat people the way I have been treated and I intend to let everyone know the story. People will and have the right to form their own opinions. Not sure why you say the site is down, I was just on it, 34 visits yesterday. If you want to form the opinion that I am the jerk, that is your prerogative, but if you had gone the path I went and still got banned without a warning or kick, I don't think you would feel that your circumstances would warrant the actions of Fart. I will not send people to their server to form their own opinions, because the people that I know and speak with respect my opinion and treat them as fact. I have earned that from my behavior and interactions with people over the years. I disagree that people need a independent source to form their opinions. People watch Fox, MSNBC and the like every day and forum opinions. The fact that no one from Fart has posted a single fact about this issue speaks volumes. Do they have the right to remain silent, of course they do, but to most people that silence implicates their guilt. You can choose to invoke your 5th amendment rights, but how often do you think the innocent remain silent? You can choose to ignore my side of the story, but then you are left with completely making up your own story as the other side refuses to speak. I disagree that sending money to Nigeria is similar as that is a known scam. I liken what happened not as a date, but more like being banned from a public place without a warning for not following "the rules" when you were following the rules or at least making an effort to do so and no one said anything, just never come back. I disagree with their is no bad publicity. Is it good that Toyota is recalling vehicles, no their sales are down. You don't have to just take my word for it, or my posts, look at the facts that I have presented, screen shots, etc.... The facts are not opinions or slanted. Look at all the work Skuta did to reveal my address, do you think it implicates them in any way that they would put my private information on a public board instead of addressing the facts? Seems like more misdirection. Again you can form your own opinion, but it appears rather sleazy and a scare tactic that has in the past used by mafia lawyers to scare off potential jurors, you know reading their address in to the record during jury selection.

Raile, at one point in time I was not only an admin, but a senior admin at the now (somewhat) defunct full contact war. The same stuff went on there that goes on at the Fart server, a few power hungry admins did whatever they wanted to the users because the server was so popular it would never die. At one point I think the Gametracker rank was 3. Then the users banded together, left and the server went bye-bye. I was the number 2 contributor to the community, only behind Johnny Blaze from SWAT. I contributed $50 per month to the community and before the old site went down I had contributed a total of $650. When the server started there was no donations as a private individual was footing the bill. The site is now changed and the donation log has been reset, so if you want proof, I guess I can post credit card receipts with money moved to Paypal. I am more than happy to provide evidence for my statements. Never would I have even dreamed of treating a user like I have been treated. When people broke the rules on our server we warned them and when the regulars were bending the rules a little, I would get in their squads and talk to them on VOIP to understand their issues. I would not have called myself a regular at Fart, but before the ban I was playing there a couple times a week, and from my forum post I was known to the admins. You can ask BF2 players like WookinPaNub and LpUnit about my admin style. The rule was 2 warns to kick, 2 kicks to ban. Not just straight to ban especially if I knew they were making an effort to comply with the server rules. In the post on the Fart forum many people agreed that the Fart rule had a lot of gray area and to just to what they did, in my opinion and the opinion of many people is wrong. I do own (actually rent) web servers, but no public game server.

Skutaboy, I am in Toronto and Calgary often for business, I would be happy to come by and see you if you live by those cities. Maybe I can meet you at a gym that has a boxing ring or MMA octagon, we can settle this the old fashion way. Feel free to come right down the my house, I am sure you will not leave like you came. In my state you are allowed to use lethal force on trespassers. Once you enter the property from the locked automatic front gate, you would be fair game. My house sits back from the road about 300 feet, so I will have ample opportunity to prevent your forward progress. I had the option of keeping my identity hidden, but I do not hide from anyone. It is funny how you had the time to go out and do a whois search and then a google map and then the post a picture of my property, yet my case at Fart is closed, over and done with, you have moved on. If you took just half that time to actually resolve this issue, it could be over and done. Again, Fart's silence speaks volumes. Like I said on another forum, there are 30+ people that I have talked to via Xfire, VOIP, etc, that won't play on the Fart server anymore. I talk to more every day. They are passing the word around too. I was an admin on FCW for 3 years and have lots of BF2 friends and associates. Over 100 in Xfire alone. I have asked them to spread the word and my message will go viral. I just did a google search and fartclan.info is now #4 when you search for "fart clan". I started out at 22, and has moved 18 places in 2 weeks. I will soon be #1 and people will come to my site when searching for your clan before they hit your own site. My plan is working perfectly!

I look forward to continuing the discussion.....

I just saw Skuta's photoshop. Now they are taking images of user's homes and showing a helicopter blowing them up. All this time, but no facts, we are much too good to actually post a rebuttal. That is funny. More content for my site. I wonder what users will think when they see that Fart admins posting this type of stuff about blowing up people's houses. Thanks Skuta you are just helping me.

Only a child is not capable of seeing the difference between someone drawing out of proportion helicopters with guns blowing up a house and what they would actually do in reality. The fact is that skuta wouldn't do something like that but we all find your bitching and moaning quite funny so we're enjoying it even more when you come back with a reply like that because I think it touched you in a special place.

Basically you are the next gunners, everything you say wont be taken with a shred of care or acknowledgement (at least from myself) you're being a douche and you're only continuing with this to spite the clan (the following is a quote from yourself but the quote thingy isn't working...)

''My ultimate goal is to either bring the Fart server down or receive an apology and an unban. Will I ever play on Fart again, of course not, I would not give them the time of day, but I am obviously doing this on principle.'' (3rd sentence on your fat rant at the bottom of page 2)

There are way too many servers still out there for you to play on with ease. Stop being such a little girl gunners, and jog on. BB.

Reading your post I have had similar happen to myself (banned from a server for suspicion aimbotting with a grenade launcher) after making an appeal the admin still felt that I used an aimbot. Stupid, but there we go, off I went and checked back from time to time until gleefully seeing the servers and clan had failed and gone their separate ways.

You seem to misunderstand my point regarding sending people to the server. Obviously your friends may trust your opinion, however the site is obviosuly aimed at people who don't know you and therefore have no opinion on your judgement, so my previous comment still stands: if you're convinced the server is bad, send people there to see for themselves and if it really is bad they will leave and possibly even add their support to your site.

Your analogy regarding forming opinions from the news - news stations do try to deliver the news in an unbiased fashion. Your site can't be unbiased.. it would be like trying to get advice on cancer from a tobacco company. Silence doesn't imply guilt, it can imply many other things including apathy or perhaps just nto wishing to fan flames on someone who's made a hate site. I chose to ignore your side of the story as none of it has corroborating factual evidence to back it up and would do likewise for fart since i wasn't commenting on the content of your ban specifically.

The adage of no such thing as bad publicity is a quote from an old irish author, it's a common saying.

Now with regards to invading yoru privacy address etc., - you did this to yoruself, the website you registered includes your name and address information and is publically avaialble. Just go to somewhere like whois.sc and put it in. You can't suggest that something you've made publically available is in fact an invasion of your privacy. Even if it were, those action have no linking implciations to other actions such as the ban itself.

The fact you've presented... mentioning screenshots, there isn't anything definitive there that couldn't be explained with it's own spin by either side involved.

Again the block of text regarding your previous server admin.. is irrelevent since your issues were with another clans server that you have no power or say over, regardless of what rules you implemented in your servers.

Now as far as the bit about skuta posting your address and suggesting scare tactics and implication by association, your final satement is poorly veiled threat: come to house, lethal force directed at trespassers (besides, this doesn't work if you invited them there ) - essentially suggesting if they came by invite to your house, you may in fact kill them is by far the most petty, childish and frankly pathetic statement I've read on a forum in a long time. I've seen that type of thing blurted forth from kids trying to look hard, but for an adult to come out with that type of threat is just really sad.

I should also point out if they were really arsed about your site and its google ranking, a site dedicated to the abuse of a group/existing site would be against the terms and conditions of your hosting and they could easily have it removed.

and


This is incorrect. You started your "30+ thread" because you were, in fact, kicked for stat padding. I read that entire thread at the time was posted, and I quote the subject line you started it with: "Kick for stat padding - can I get an explaination?". You said you had a copy of your post, so why don't you go ahead and put it up so we can all see those exact words? I understand how helpful it is to your case to claim that you were never kicked before your ban, but that is clearly not the truth. And in all seriousness, why would you engage in a long discussion about whether your activities are allowed if you weren't kicked or warned?



I have no doubt that you did in fact look up the rules. However, Blackhawk behaviour aside, I personally witnessed your entire squad spawn raping the south gas station(without intent to capture the flag, as I described earlier) at various points during your stay on the server, both before and after your kick for padding and your "30+ thread". Since you are apparently suggesting that after your kick and at the time of your "30+ thread" that you looked up the rules, you would have seen the rule prohibiting "Spawnkilling without intention to capture flag". And now that you claim to have been an admin in the past, I'm sure you know as well as I do that it's quite common for servers to have rules against spawn raping.
Since you went to so much trouble to look up the rules:
1. When were you planning to tell your regular squadmates about the spawn raping rule?
2. Do you realize that this spawn raping by itself is bannable without regard to any other issues?
3. Can you explain why you(and all of your squadmates) continued to perform that activity beyond that point in time at which you claim to have studied the rules?



If you truly believe that haw8 is innocent, then why not put a section for him on your site to rally against all those servers that banned him? Is it too much trouble to do that since you yourself aren't banned on those servers? Don't you realize that if all those servers banned haw8 for being "too good", they would ban your group for being "too good" if you ever decided to play on any of them? After all, it's like you said: "Walking away is the coward approach. If everyone took that tact, then how would any injustices be fixed, people would be too busy stepping to fight for righteous resolutions to problems."

On the other hand, if you do not have direct personal proof of haw8's innocence(and really, you cannot possibly know that he's innocent, as you have no more way of disproving that he hacks then I have of proving he does), then why would you risk your credibility by lumping his ban in with your own? Obviously, you are turning the fact that FART doesn't tell hackers how they were caught into fuel for a conspiracy theory in order to support your own cause, nothing more. But....if that's not true, then can we expect to see a "Free haw8!" section on your website?

If you actually read the post on the Fart forum, you would know that I was never personally kicked from the server, the people that I was in the chopper were kicked because others in the back of the chopper were dropping mines out constantly. We were not doing anything wrong, that is why I asked for the clarification at the time. If you read my post you also know that it was civil and that I was actually trying to legitimately get information.

The round that we were banned on was when we were USMC, so your assertion that we were banned for spawn raping has little merit. If that is why we were banned, why no kick? If you look on the Fart forum, that is only a kick, why the ban? Did you witness us not shooting at people until they shot at us? Is it raping if you don't attack and are just sitting? Did you see me in the tank, or someone else? I doubt you saw me, as JP usually took the tank up there.

As far as Haw8, obviously I don't have all the details, so I am not going to tie my destiny to his, but as an former admin, we did not kick/ban people for hacking without proof. Again if Fart wants to run things that way, it is their decision, I will just bring it out in the open.

Seeing as I own the web server, I don't think the site will be removed by anyone. There are plenty of other sites that expose the truth out there and mine is just another.

Skutaboy, if you come to my house, you are not invited or welcome, just to get that straight. There is no thin veil, I will exercise my rights to stop you or anyone entering the property. 7.62x39 style.

I didn't say your post was uncivil.

I also did not say that you were banned for spawn raping. I already said before that for all I know they didn't even notice your spawn raping. I am simply saying that you COULD have been banned for spawn raping even if nothing else you did was brought into question. I am also saying that despite your claims that you read the rules in detail, you continued to spawn rape. And if not you, then "JP", as you say. I especially like the way you say that JP "usually" took the tank up there, but you ask "did you not witness US not shooting at people?". Which is it? Are you claiming that JP was up there alone or was "US"(meaning you with him) up there together? And if you do claim he was doing it alone, do you believe it's OK to let your friends risk banning by breaking rules you know about and they don't? And if you are going to claim that sitting on a spawn point and not shooting people until they shoot at you makes it no longer count as spawn raping...that's ridiculous. "Hi, I'm here to steal your chopper, put your hands up and let us take it and we won't spawn rape you?"

And again, as far as haw8 goes, you continue to imply that he was banned without proof. In the first part of your statement about him you admit you "do not have all the details", but then in the second part of your statement you speak as if it were an established fact that he was banned without proof and that you are just "bringing it out in the open". If you don't have all the details, then you can only speak of it as a possibility, not an established fact, wouldn't you agree?

As a former admin yourself, are you saying that it's a good idea to lay out your proof and methods to the players you ban so that they can learn from their mistakes and not get caught in the future; not to mention all the other people reading the ban appeal forum that might be considering purchasing some cheats?

um, narp - a dedicated managed host (like peer1) still requires you to abide by an acceptable usage policy that has things about not harassing people etc.,

I know this from having to be careful with the servers I own in datacentres - I may physically own (not even renting) the hardware and therefore can do with it as I may, but if I break the datacentres AUP, they will just drop it fom the switches.

@skuta: sry, I've uninstalled bf2 after the 1.5 patch

Ive given up reading this now its not an essay competition

Monkeyfiend, Thanks for the heads up, I will check with Peer 1 and see if this is a violation of their policy. I doubt that it is as there are plenty of consumer protection sites that publish similar content. What does narp mean?

Maniac, the explanation is simple, JP was the squad leader, we would take Power Plant as a squad, get the tank and then he would go up there. This was his strategy not mine, I did not tell him to do that, I learned it from him. I am sure I did it too when JP was not there, that is why I said usually. Rarely did I play on Fart without JP. Again, if what we were doing was breaking the rules, why not a warning or kick? I answer you questions directly, no how about you do the same? If you say we were not banned for this, why are you even talking about this irrelevant information. Per the rules on the Fart clan website, that would only be a kickable offense. Never did any admin tell us not to do that, and several times there was a Fart member in our squad while this was going on. If Haw8 was banned for hacking with proof, why was he banned, then unbanned, then banned again? Or is that question too top secret and would expose too much confidential hacking catcher info. Did the proof get submitted to PB Bans and is he banned everywhere now? You can try to justify Fart's action all you want, but at the end of the day I believe they are in the wrong.

I'll answer you directly, how should I know why you weren't kicked, warned, or even banned for spawn raping? You know I'm not an admin, so you know I don't know, and as I have said twice now, for all I DO know, they did not even notice you doing it. Why am I talking about spawn raping when it is so "irrelevant", then? Because you yourself are dredging up things not related to your own situation in order to induce doubt, and assassinate Fart's character in order to discredit them, which you hope, ostensibly, will force people to assume that you are right and side with you. I am simply demonstrating that you are willing to break rules in hopes of showing that you are no saint yourself, to use your own medicine(character assassination) against you. How's that for a direct answer? And via the responses I'm getting from you, you are not claiming not to have read the rule, you are not claiming you didn't know, I'm not even sure you're trying to defend yourself at all except you keep saying "why not a warning, why not a warning why not a warning"? Yes, I'm aware that spawn raping is listed as a kickable offense and not bannable until "committed more than once" and yes I realize you are implying that it can't be "committed more than once" until you have received your first warning. It now seems very clear to me that in your mind, you have done nothing wrong until you are presented with a formal warning; and while that was not the answer I expected you to give; I guess you're entitled to your own philosophies. Very well, if that's your explanation of the spawn raping, then fine, I have nothing more to say on the matter.

Lastly, I am not attempting to justify Fart's actions. I'm pretty sure I never actually said anything that had anything to do with expressing an opinion on your ban one way or the other, and I don't intend to; either now or in the future. My goal was simply to do something to get in the way of your character assassination techniques. Hopefully that's a direct enough answer for you, but now that I've made my point, you can continue with your crusade without me.

I must say, though, that I don't think many of these fine =SM= folks will think very highly of someone that doesn't follow rules until they've tested the waters and gotten a warning.