My long moan about Project Reality Options

[MonkeyFiend]

read this if you can be arsed, I only wrote this to justify my thoughts on PR, while waiting for a fat program to compile...

Basically I downloaded it again after briefly playing an older version. My first impressions are that it has quite a bit of potential. The new training servers were handy for getting me use to various kits/vehicles without people bitching and moaning or insiting they fly because it's their server etc.,

However I've found relatively few servers playing, a lot of the servers I've been on have featured people TK'ing for vehicles, abuse of assets, childish behaviour and racism (often with no kick vote or players that just dont care, lack of admin etc.,) and the impact of cheats which I've seen a few is greater than bf2.

Spending 20 minutes getting to a point only to have someone crash the server was not fun.

I've no issues with the new weapons and vehicles as such, to be honest I quite like them. However I did find the medic system unintuitive.

I base my opinions on a couple of games with some from R6, a few hours of random squads and probably about 20 hours of games with EB staff (who knew all the levels like the back of their hands)

I have to admit I like the teamwork elements, however I did find the spawn times excessive. While making assets like helicopters more valuable, the long spawn times mean you're often left waiting, especially when someone sharks an asset then totals it within 20 seconds. This would be avoided if everyone were truely working together, however this just doesn't happen on public servers; players work as squads because they have to, but not as a team as a whole.

Now I don't want jumping on rockets insta-respawn a la UT, however the pace of PR is too slow for my liking, even with rally points near the fight. In probably the 20-30 games I've played, regardless of being superior to the enemy or getting our asses kicked, I've never found the battles to be intense, more a series of disjointed skirmishes.

Now even after all of this I've still not given up on the game - perhaps it will grow on me, so I'll play some more of it.

However please don't dismiss my opinions as lacking in knowledge - although I don't have as many hours as some I would like to think my knowledge of games dating backs from wolfenstein3d, encompassing many strategic games (hell even a HNC in military tactics... don't ask ), 'realisitic' fps games like americas army etc., and a working knowledge of bf2 along with the hours I've put into PR would stand me in good stead to make comment. I know it's a different game and I have spent time learning it (ok I may not be a master of PR, but I at least know what's going on)

I've also found the 'community' of sorts to contain a high propertion of wankers - many people are just retards (tk'ers/general flamers), while others have the truly vile arrogant and aloof cliquey type mentality. Often people are quick to blame others or condescend for 'lack of game knowledge' - even on training servers. (although I have met quite a few cool individuals too) - impact of people TKing is also higher since you don't just respawn in 15 seconds back into the action.

I suspect this is inherant of the game type - making a more realitisitc more hardcore FPS attracts the more 'hardcore' crowd, who often think that by making the game more hardcore (complex/difficult etc.,)means they are possess 'skillz' etc., that players of other games couldn't possibly have, which makes them better than players of other games. There's a surprising number of PR players that have told me BF2 is for noobs. None of which have managed to justify this statement.

Overall, the game is good on a technical, reailistic levels.. however I've not found it particularily fun.

Now Flame away....

[fido77]

i agree with ya monkey, i think the game looks good and all that. but i couldn't possibly take the time to get through a round. i just don't have that much time. i have been hearing really good things about the new AIX mod though. i would like to check that out if i could ever get it to dl. plus, FaRT has their own AIX servers and i know they admin their servers pretty well.

[=R6= Raile]

cool that you've put some time into it. probably right on most thoughts.. tho i think it just bothers me less then it does you..
although I will say that I'm a bit surprised by saying the stuff about most servers having people tking etc. that stuff definitely does happen, but I've always found it to be way less then vanilla ever was. What servers do you play on? There are a half dozen servers that we regularily play on because we know they are fairly decently admin'd. no real difference from vanilla if you ask me.. you created your clan and server because of the vast amount of poorly ran servers.. 0.o


I'd say tho for the comments about it mostly just being a bunch of disjointed skirmishes, I'm curious what maps you were playing on the 20-30 games.. because while it is entirely possible to just have skirmishes here and there, there are definitely "hot zones" on maps where big fights usually end up happening. It surprised me that in 20+ games you havn't really seen any? IMO they are vastly more epic then anything BF2 has. Spawn times are long (as you said), therefore most don't throw their lives away stupidly. Gone are the just running into the middle of the enemy and killing as many as you can like would be done in BF2, because, more realistically, this is the fastest way to fail. Generally advancing the lines is the way to win.
Plus bring armor into the equation. Armor OWNS ALL. as it should. Thus meaning when you take down armor, it actually means something substantial!! No killing a tank 40 times in one round. Big fucking deal taking out a tank if it spawns again in 30 seconds. You kill a tank in this, and you have no tank to go up against for 20 minutes.

I know that in vanilla, you and I used to be similar in the throw our lives away to get as many kills as possible type of players. always in the middle of the fight rather then gunning from farther away and playing it safe. Now, it took twon MONTHS of getting me out of that way of playing, because it isn't successful here. Even after 20 games I'd be interested if you still play this way. Spawn times aren't long if you aren't always dead.

I'm not sure what you find tough about the medic? Other then trying to play the kit like it is in vanilla, (which is a common failure), I don't know what's wrong with it? It was the best kit in vanilla because it was the most unbalanced. It's quite balanced now IMO.

so I ask this..
what game does it better? I've played America's Army it isn't better IMO. Or atleast, you don't see me playing it.. maybe I should say, what would you rather play instead?

[Magik6]

Hello Kitty Island Adventure

[MonkeyFiend]

...I'm a bit surprised by saying the stuff about most servers having people tking etc. that stuff definitely does happen, but I've always found it to be way less then vanilla ever was. What servers do you play on?

Indeed - there are smacktards in both, but like I said the impact of a TK on BF2 is tiny, a quick death, a quick respawn and straight into the action. On PR it can be a slow death, but the respawns are longer and then you could be faced with another long wait or at the least a bit of a hike back to the action.

...I'd say tho for the comments about it mostly just being a bunch of disjointed skirmishes, I'm curious what maps you were playing on the 20-30 games.. because while it is entirely possible to just have skirmishes here and there, there are definitely "hot zones" on maps where big fights usually end up happening. It surprised me that in 20+ games you havn't really seen any? ...

Although I think I've played most of the maps, probably played a lot of:

Bi Ming
Barracuda
Ghost Train
Tad Sae
Muttrah City
Sunset City
Ramiel

Couple of bookmarked servers, RIP? perhpas and usually just looking at maps/pings and players. When playing with the EB lot, I just followed them so not sure which servers were used.

so I ask this..
what game does it better? I've played America's Army it isn't better IMO. Or atleast, you don't see me playing it.. maybe I should say, what would you rather play instead?

Does what better? PR seems like it does a decent job of being realistic. I also wasn't a great fan of americas army - it was realistic but not well made. BF2 on the other hand was rather unrealistic, sometime poorly made (buggy/inssecure), however it was, for the most part, fun.
I don't believe there is a realism/fun trade-off. I believe that PR has pulled off a more realistic game, but that it's not as fun as it should be (or as fun as other games) - this doesn't preclude someone creating a game as realistic as PR but as fun as bf2... just in my mind PR hasn't quite pulled it off.

I'd still rather play PR to AA, but in my mind PR still has a hell of a lot of things wrong with it.. some are the fault of the players, some of the game-design and some the constraints of the bf2 engine

[=R6= Raile]

i see what you mean by the tk making more of an impact.. just in my experience it doesn't happen that much, unless you are on an un-admin'd server. what else can you do really though? if there is a hacker making life difficult for you on vanilla, it's going to suck too. less maybe, but still force you to go elsewhere.

hmm.. all of those maps can be cool, but some are most definitely better then others. most of these maps are the smallest ones in PR btw..
bi ming and tad sae are very small maps, and dont have any real hot zone type places. its a lot more of skirmishes between squads.
barracuda, IMO, is not a very balanced map. it has potential to be AWESOME, but with the random flags, it is possible for all the flags to be on the western part of the map, which is much more open, and tends to be more fighting in small squads.. where as the eastern part of the map, is one of my favourite places to fight in all of PR. the other night we played on that map and every flag spawned on the west side.. and it wasnt that fun. so that map needs work IMO, and most definitely you might have thought it had no epic battles.
well i shouldnt list them all, but the others definitely have some epic feels.. sunset city is pretty much an epic battle EVERY TIME! its only one flag in the middle of a small city.. everyone fighting over it.. not sure how that isn't epic?

well, I ask what is better, because I guess I assume that if you are trying it out then you want something to play that is atleast similar to what it's trying to do. If you aren't looking for something like that, then sure, it's far from a perfect game. Me, I've always hated how arcade like BF2 was. but it was the best game at the time. If you are just looking for a game to be fun, then maybe it isn't for you. There are loads of games out there that might be more fun. Sure, you might think L4D is more fun, but it's a totally different type of game. There aren't any other games out there that are similar to what PR is trying to do, that are better. I guess it depends what you are looking for.

[MonkeyFiend]

yeah, I've long been in the market for a realistic yet fun modern era FPS.

BF2 was good, but its dated now, less players and has been ruined by the glitches, bugs and cheats. I would have preferred more realism than BF2, but as you say BF2 was the best game of its genre in its day..

L4D is a very different style of play, its not realistic but its fun. It satisfies my wants for teamwork but not realism. In the same way that playing GTA IV satisfies my urges to drive like Tess (e.g. at high speed and precariously)

What I need is someone to remake Joint Ops, but make it good

[=R6= Raile]

have you looked at operation flashpoint 2? (i believe that was the name, never played the original and Sam was telling me about it)

[Magik5]

http://www.play.com/Games/PC/4-/5211831/-/...;searchsource=0

hmm looks ok, highly doubt in game will look that good tho, gfx wise.

[Magik6]

I had someone telling me about this yesterday, he was speaking very highly of it. Hopefully will be worth looking into.

[Magik5]

could ur sig be any bigger? tard.

[=R6= Raile]

graphics mean little to nothing to me..

what the hell is your sig anyways 6? it doesn't seem to make much sense to me....

[fido77]

looks cool

[Magik6]

I couldn't be aresed to resize it, its a pic related to an album I absolutely LOVE and kind of forgot how much I did until recently, its called deadwing.

Too many bikes around in Brighton for me to want to look at them everytime I get on the forum too

[MonkeyFiend]

have you looked at operation flashpoint 2? (i believe that was the name, never played the original and Sam was telling me about it)[

yep - I played the original op flashpoint - that game was realisitc assuming you believe all soldiers are veteran snipers (so many times I could make out a spec in the distance before said speck ripped me apart with rifle fire )

Nova (who made flashpoint and delta force (shit that that was)) also made Joint Ops later, this presented a balance of realism (better aim than BF2, lethal heli's) and mixed in some fun e.g. dirtbikes for transport capable of wheelies and road kills - not realistic but damn good fun. This game (while very very dated now) was great in its day. It also had flag by flag and co-op mission game modes which was nice. The AAS (flag by flag) was really good at concentrating battles in larger maps, while still allowing the freedom to roam (thereby negating nade spam of choke points).

It also featured 64v64 maps, even the attack heli's (think little birds from bf2) could carry troops, there was even a massive helicopeter that could transport troops and a jeep so the beginning of a game was truely epic - 128 people hurtling towards each other in choppers, tank, trucks, apcs, bikes, boats, quad-bikes etc., - think apocalypse now, ride of the valkyrie's (I believe they stopped these 128 players servers though)

The maps were also realatively open - so there was little point in nadespamming a locations, since people could make their way via several routes.

Co-incidentally the choppers were lethal, however the levels (set in jungles mostly) provided plenty of cover, you could get a squad approaching you and manage to hide in the bushes if you were quiet and lucky

As with all old games, support dropped (just before bf2 was released we'd been waiting for a patch for over a year, sound familiar?? ) and the cheats took over

[Magik5]

source mod with above description anyone ? ;p

[fido77]

so, anyone think this game is worth checking out?

[MonkeyFiend]

not anymore - its now full of cheats, custom CS-esque maps and those still playing are the hardcore elite that have stuck with a game thats several years old (these people are generally giant cock faces!)

Like I said, was good in its day.. then bf2 came and people left JO and the game died.

I did think about reinstalling it, but I lent my CD's to someone and never got them back

[=R6= Raile]

isn't fido referring to the sequel that I was talking about? o.o

[MonkeyFiend]

oh good point