L4D UPDATE! Options

[MonkeyFiend]

Valve have just updated Left 4 Dead, the changelog is:

January 14, 2009 - Left 4 Dead Update Released


Left 4 Dead has been updated with a host of fixes, tweaks and new features, including enhancements to Versus mode for improved competitive play. The full change list is below. For PC users the update will be applied automatically via Steam. Meanwhile, the update will be made available to Xbox 360 players in the coming weeks.

General

• Fixed Survivors being able to climb surfaces marked for versus infected only
• Fixed a class of SurvivorBot bugs dealing with rescuing downed players
• Players can no longer grab ladders while flying through the air after a Tank punch
• Shooting near a car with an alarm that has already fired the alarm will no longer make chirping noises
• Improved loading time
• Fixed mini-gun physics exploit
• Fixed propane tanks (and other physics objects) causing players to fall through elevators
• Fixed rare achievement bug issues
• Fixed several map exploits
• Fixed various match making issues
• Fixed NAT traversal issues

Versus Changes

• Added HUD elements to show status of other infected players
• Changed color of infected player name in chat to red
• Fixed exploit where players could spawn infected bots
• Fixed instance where a Survivor changing to the infected team would be attacked by infected bots
• Normalized special infected melee damage
• Made the following client commands cheat protected: "Kill" and "explode"
• Fixed exploit where infected players could run away and teleport back to gain health
• Players can only change teams once per map
• Players can't change teams while other players are still loading
• Tank spawns at the same % through the map for both teams in versus mode
• Made the Tank and Witch spawn directly on the escape route
• Increased chance of getting the Tank or Witch
• Fixed team swap issue

Hunter

• Easier to pounce a Survivor who is meleeing
• Increased Minimum damage a Hunter pounce does

Smoker

• Fixed Smoker tongue tolerance
• Smoker now has to be killed or the tongue destroyed for the tongue to break
• Survivor's cannot bash someone off the tongue until the Survivor being pulled is paralyzed or hanging
• Tongue attacks that fail to paralyze or hang a Survivor will use the shorter ability delay timer
• Fixed cases where the ability timer was not using the correct time
• Fixed case where you could point at a Survivor but not register a tongue hit
• Fixed Smoker tongue not targeting and landing properly through PZ ghosts
• Smoker tongue does damage every second while dragging paralyzed Survivors

Tank

• Bashable objects now appear with a red glow
• Tanks hitting a car with an alarm disables the alarm permanently
• Tank frustration timer is only reset by hitting Survivors with rocks or fists
• Reduced autoshotgun damage against Tanks

Witch

• Witch spawns at the same % through the map for both teams
• Avoids spawning within a certain % of the tank
• Fixed an exploit where the Witch could be woken up and tricked into attacking Survivors

[Magik5]

all seem interesting and i wont knock them until i play with the patch, but are there any bug fixes regarding non gameplay?

e.g. lobby bugs, connection issues etc?

[=R6= Raile]

FUCK YES

ok now that I've read thru the list, I'd say there are a lot on there that I'm excited about..

# Tank spawns at the same % through the map for both teams in versus mode

I'm not sure about this one?? doesn't this just mean that the team who goes survivor second, know exactly when the tank will show up? Kind of crap IMO as a tank isn't that hard to take out usually if you know exactly when it will show up.............

and agreed with 5.. where are all the lobby bugs to fix and stuff.. cuz there are a lot......

still very positive tho.. this is a long list atleast..

[MonkeyFiend]

After firing this up last night my main bitch is this: I was hoping melee spamming might have stamina added, but from what I can tell people were still spamming melee.

I'm also going to add a player called the_toy to the ban lists, he was saddened by the fact he can no longer bind change weapon and melee to the same button (which makes you melee spam much faster than normally possible).. noob

Agree with the comment about the tank... the 2nd team get close to the point then clear the area/set up camp and prepare

It does hwoever say fixed various matchmaking issues, so maybe the lobby bugs have been addressed

but mainly....


WHERE'S MY FECKING SDK!

[Magik5]

with this sdk can we set up our own randomness of tank/witch spawnings and limit melee spamming etc?

[=R6= Raile]

i am truely f-ed off by this tank business

[MonkeyFiend]

I've seen comments along these lines on various forums citing a balance: 1st round - neither team prepared, 2nd round - both teams prepare a set peice, ergo balance.

However this is flawed as:

1. This assumes that prepared infected = prepared survivors. I suspect even the most co-ordinated infected still can't match co-ordinated survivors, therefore the team playing survivors in the 2nd round have an advantage

2. On the 2nd round the event is triggered by the suvivors. This means they camp just before the tank point and wait for the infected to spawn, kill them, then trigger the tank. They basically control when the tank appears.. also allows them to be cocks and not trigger the tank until they clear the other infected or spent a little more time before the tank event scavenging for explosives.


I'd prefer it both teams got the same amount of tanks and the nominated tank, at the beginning of the round, was able to pick a position to spawn in at a later point in the game when the survivors got near to that point.

This would allow tanks to spawn in a strong location and for survivors aware of this to prepare while also allowing some randomness e.g. a tank may choose a weaker spawn point, in order to catch survivors off-guard

[=R6= Raile]

I completely agree with you

I don't understand why people think the second round would still be balanced. It matters very slightly if the infected know when they are getting the tank. The survivors however, it matters hugely for. Making sure they are full health, making sure they have molotovs, and making sure they hit it at the right time with other infected dead. It's totally unbalanced IMO. I think part of the problem is that currently there are way more people who don't know how to play this game as a team yet, then there are who do, and therefore most people don't see this as a problem. Most are usually not going to be coordinated enough on the survivor side of things to realize how powerful it is, whereas people like us are already playing with a lot of teamwork.

I wouldn't have such a huge problem with this if the infected had more control over the situation. I don't know about letting the infected choose where to spawn, as I'm not sure how it would work.. since how does the whole team choose? One person would have to be designated to choose or something. At what time would they choose aswell? I'm not sure about it, but the idea of giving them more control I think is the right one. Even if you just made the Tank's aggression bar go down more slowly, or, once hit says "you are becoming the tank", you actually got to choose where you spawned, just like other infected (although with a certain time limit so as to not give COMPLETE control to the tank as to where and when it spawns), I think this would become much more balanced. It would become more on the side of the infected being good playerrs, and knowing where to use the tank, as opposed to a team getting luck, or unlucky, as to where their tank spawns.

[MonkeyFiend]

The idea in my previous post was at the beggining of the round (maybe add a 20 second delay), an infected is randomly picked who will play the tank.. (just like traditionally a random infected is thrown into the role of a tank)

they could then cheese around the map and select a point to spawn (obviously not at the very beggining/end safe room) - the moment they pick the tank spawn point they'd go back to regular infected with the rest of their team and play through the game as normal infected.

Once the survivors get near to the point previously selected for the tank spawn, the original player would become the tank.

This would allow infected to place tanks in strong positions and allow preparation, it would also mean that survivors (knowing where the strong places and therefore likely locations for tank spawns are) could prepare where they think a tank will be. As for randomness, it also means infected could gamble and pick a less strong spawn point to try and maximise the advantage of surprise.

So the options for infected would be to

A: maximise the strongest locations for a tank (but risk the survivors preparing for it)
B: use a weaker starting location and maximise the element of surprise

I also forgot another point, as it stands you don't always get a tank on a level, so if one doesn't come for the first team, then the 2nd team know they are not going to get a tank and can prepare accordingly e.g. picking pipe bombs over molotovs

[=R6= Raile]

i like it, but one problem that would have to be worked out..
running around the map at the beginning of the level means you aren't playing while everyone else is. if you have to run to the end of the level, that could take a LONG time (especially on the elevator bit of NM4!)

[Magik5]

instead of choosing at beginning, have a magic button like n or sumthin so you can spawn your tank whenever you choose throughout the level

[=R6= Raile]

i'd have to say isn't that getting too complicated? and I think its taking a bit too much of the randomness out of the game..

I posted this on the L4D forums:

to clarify with an example:

AI puts tank in at a random % of the map in round 1, let's say 38%.
One of round 1's infected takes control in the spectating/ghost mode (whatever you call it), and has time to spawn the tank in, where they choose. Just like if someone spawned in as a boomer/etc.

Round 2 starts, and at 38%, one of round 2's infected takes control of the tank, in "ghost" mode, and chooses where THEY want to spawn in.

Both infected teams get the tank at the same time on both rounds, but get to individually choose where they spawn.

This gives:
- Still having randomness, but in control of the players. If one team chooses to spawn the tank in a bad spot, it's their fault.
- Survivors still surprised.
- neither team gets a tank sooner then the other team

This however wouldn't eliminate the fact that the second team would know there wouldn't be a tank before 38% of the map complete, but atleast this would be a step in the right direction...

[Magik5]

whats complicated about pressing n

[=R6= Raile]

well mostly because it could potentially change the way the game plays quite a bit..
atleast in my opinion, my idea works more along the ways the game has already been created.. making the tank spawn in more like the rest of the infected..

i didnt mean it like your idea was bad, just thought mine would play a bit better...

also i really dont like the idea of COMPLETE control over where and when the tank spawns..

[Magik5]

i just wanted to make it sound like you had 0 clue on how to press the n button, because i felt it was necessary to do at that point in time.


although i dont like the sound of a few changes, im going to reserve my comments until ive played with/got used to the patch, because i may be pleasantly surprised

[Foxx_in_Socks]

played the update today,
on my first game, the first lvl of no mercy - we got a tank spawn in the house, which of course with so little room, shit weapons and no molotovs killed us all.
the next teams turn to be survivor just didnt jump down the hole to the ground floor, leaving it impossible for the tank to get them - they threw a molotov and all was over as fast as you can say whatafuckingtwatingidea.

[=R6= Raile]

yeah fox that is exactly what i expect was going to happen..

the tank has very little tactics it can use.. the survivors really only have tactics to defeat it... so as soon as you give the survivors complete control of the situation, they are going to win most times..

@ magik, dont get me wrong dude i think the patch is awesome.. this one thing is the only thing that i dont like.. im just hoping that it isnt such a huge deal that it ruins all the other good things. im very worried that going second as survivors is going to be everything...

[MonkeyFiend]

i like it, but one problem that would have to be worked out..
running around the map at the beginning of the level means you aren't playing while everyone else is. if you have to run to the end of the level, that could take a LONG time (especially on the elevator bit of NM4!)

nah, not running - flying round spectate style in fast speed, just like you do when you pick an infected. Also a 20 sec delay should give that player enough time to fly round, pick a decent location and be back in time for a cup of tea and the start of the game

[=R6= Raile]

that's true

I still like the randomness of the game tho and that steals it a bit too much for my liking, but it would definitely work better then what it is now!

[MonkeyFiend]

Also in other patch updates I've reduced the randomness of players so that Raile always get Zoey

(joking.. although technically possible )