Ban Inquiry - How long? perm? Options

[Rook]

Hello,

SM chivalry server, yesterday. I kicked a guy off the bridge, twice. Was banned for the tk, which is fair enough i did indeed tk him, I feel like pointing out I was tk'd multiple times intentionally on that same server pretty much at the same time, but no one else got a ban or even a kick. Now how you choose to dish out your bans or enforce your rules is your business aka, a ban for this guy but not for that guy for the same thing. I just want to know: How long am I banned for,

Not even gunna make a big deal out of the fact I was baited into this, aka team mate intentionally damages me then moves to stand near the water so that I will kick him in as I belive in 'like for like' and then he imminently turns around to his friend the admin "he teamkilled me ban pl0x"

I can only really join the SM server and the OA server, so a speedy rpely would be neat. Again to clarify I am not necessarily asking you to unban me, just tell how long the ban is, if it is perm, then maybe we should talk about an appeal and conditional return.

EDIT: Okay so you have a standing ban against an entire clan? I think I am getting the picture here, why I have been handed massive sentences for the tiniest infractions, you guys like swingin your dicks about, abusing power it seems, I can tell that because I read you wonka clan post and I can tell immediately you are lying and saying "it was all them we did nothing" well I know that is not true, forming communities, operating disparate factions etc has been my job for at least 10 years. You dont have rules, and then enforce them, you have enforcement and you bend the rules to suit it. Hence having no predefined ban reasons/terms its down to each admin and how he wants to abuse the players in his server. Which I find to be a] degenerate and b] inefficient, why are you wanting to run a despotism as a gaming community? Based on these observation above, you are the type of people that would rather silence someone then answer difficult questions or confront bs admin practices. So I expect if i wasn't perm'd before, I am now and shortly to be permd from these forums for daring to disagree or raise a point about SM. And in doing so you will demonstrate my point, that your admins are fully corrupt and ban and swing their power about as they desire with no mind towards any kind of actual justice or filtering out the really bad individuals. Because clearly a lot of "bad individuals" people are spiteful, abusive and unreasonable ARE your admins. In which case morally, I cannot be a part of your server or community. So do as you wish with what I presume was my perma ban anyway. If I hear nothing back from you, or equally if I come to check for a reply and find that I have indeed been permd from the forums and thus my ability to appeal, you will be agreeing with me that SM is just another despotism and a bunch of shitty people, and I wouldn't want to play with you guys anyway. Up to you o7

Oh and before you start blindly raging and smashing down the ban hammer, actually re-read what I just told you, and then tell me SM doesn't operate as a Despotist State. Then admit it to yourself "I am a despot, and I run a despotist community" OR god forbid, you can be a reasonable human being, analyse my message, try to understand point of view and reconcile with me. Not that I expect reason from a community that went running to EA...a game publisher to get a clan wide IP ban for an entire group of people that presumably you guys started shit with through your shitty admin practices here on SM, am I wrong or not? we will find out when I get perma banned for pointing out how quickly you hand out permabans.

You have no control over your staff, and you are setting yourself up as authoritarians which i gaureenfuckigntee you is a bad move. So wise the fuck up, install rigid parameters for the your admins to follow, with standards for ban lengths per infraction etc. Its minimal work to operate a fair server. Unless you want to openly state to me "we don't want to run a fair server" and admit you are despotists, which is fine, as you long as you are aware of how shitty you are acting.

P.P.S If you are sitting there reading this and you find yourself thinking "hurr hes causin trouble better ban him" you are literally a despot incapable of understanding my point, my point being that not any disagreement is an attack, aka If I am not even allowed to openly disagree with SM's practices, that is literally despotism and or authoritarianism and how can you sit there as a person and willing be authoritarian? is it not bad enough we have to deal with that bs in society as a whole? why let the despotism and shitty abuse of power filter down even into a fucking GAMING community. Wake up. And do you seriously think that operating a despotism or operating with authoritarian practices will get you anywhere? no it will cause you a world of endless shit until your community fractures and falls apart over time, I watch it happen ALLLLL THE FUCKING TIME.

Take some damn responsibility for your community and the services you provide to the common people such as your open SM servers, take CONTROL of the situation, because right now, you don't have any control over your administration, which means SM has absolutely no control over itself as a community and will willingly goose step itself into bs and misery. And if you also seriously think that I am the only person with this notion of SM you are sorely mistaken, and I've watched it grow over time, after paying closer attention to OA and other communities, SM does not have a great reputation and I am starting to understand WHY. So do something about it.

[AsDeR]

This was a good read. Thank you.

[Rook]

This was a good read. Thank you.

No problem at all It was fun to write. though I must say i am surprised your reply wasn't to simply deny everything and make a slew of counter accusations. Which i am sure is still coming. Though I also suspect that I never receive a reply from an actual admin, and SM will attempt to quietly sweep me under the table. Rather than risk looking bad.

"Please note: the good old "banned for no reason", "banned for being too good" etc., - if you post this in a ban appeal you're basically implying the admin is abusing their powers."

Oh and just to clarify I am DIRECTLY stating that your admins abuse their powers, which they DO. Deny it if you like, the fact that I'm probably perm'd for doing something that literaly actual SM do and just get a slap for should show otherwise.

[Rook]

.Accidental double post cant delete.

[MonkeyFiend]

Well my replies might be a little delayed, as still on holiday travelling around Cyprus.

Firstly looking at the configs, it doesn't look like you're currently banned. So either you're banned under a different name or the ban was temporary and expired. If you are still banned then the admin that made the ban can decide what happens next. I wouldn't personally lift a ban based on your post as it's more of a random lengthy rant than an actual ban appeal.

Secondly, your favourite word: despot. (noun: despot; plural noun: despots. a ruler or other person who holds absolute power, typically one who exercises it in a cruel or oppressive way.) - well I guess that's me then! Although I didn't ban you. You can probably see from the clan rules that we cover abuse of admin powers. Assuming someone had abused their powers, we generally ask for evidence. There's nothing random guests love more than gathering evidence of an admin abusing their powers. Should any evidence of that nature be presented, it goes to a clan-wide vote of whether to eject said member (which coincidentally carries a permanent server ban too). You may think this is just for random appeasement, but we've now ejected 3 members overs the years for abusing admin powers.

But I digress... you're not actually accusing us of abusing powers; you started your rant by admitting you teamkilled someone. twice. so intentionally. The rules that we've voted on as a whole, say we should make a ban. So you were banned.

You seem to take umbridge that for certain actions we carry a fixed penalty e.g. a ban but we don't specify a duration. Some common sense here would be nice, as all events are not equal. Should we be harsher on a rank 60 player TKing in the spawn, as opposed to an LMBing newbie who thinks it's FFA. Both actions carry a ban but there must be some discretion and flexability on how it's administered. You make it sound like it gives admins the power to be overly harsh, but it's quite the opposite: if we had to equate fixed durations to every possible ban reason then I'd probably just make those durations as permanent.

You should understand that adminning a gamee - a hobby, no one gets paid here (The servers cost quite a bit of money to run!) adminning the servers takes time out of admins game. While you run around shouting in caps, our admins are dropping down the scoreboard as they need to spectate to see what reported players are getting up to.

You mentioned that others seem to get away without being kicked or banned. This in itself shows ignorance: when we kick or ban someone it simply looks like said player has left the game to you random guests on the server. It may take a few minutes e.g. gathering videos or screenshots before a player is kicked. Just because we don't consult or inform you before an action is taken, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

You make a great reference to the standing ban with the Wonka clan. To add perspective here (and we do have all the posts relating to this ) the reason that ban came about was that specific clan were bullying a player who frequented the server. The player (not an SM player I might add) played on the BF2 servers, because his carer did. The guy was mentally handicapped. Several members of the wonka clan (which in itslf was a veyr small clan) took it upon themselves to cause as much trouble as possible. They did get banned. They created new accounts and came back to cause more trouble and abuse. At the time I was a moderator on the EA forums, so did confirm whether banning an entire clan was acceptable given that there may have been a couple of members at the time that weren't taking part. EA to be fair confirmed this was acceptable. Therefore they were banned.

Yes, a over a decade later, they're still banned. Their actions at the time were serious enough to warrant a permanent ban.

If you're of the belief that purposely and systematically bullying those who don't have the capacity to defend themselves equally is acceptable behaviour then that's your choice (but I suggest you take a good hard look at yourself if that's the case). We on the otherhand voted as a majority to ban all of these players and keep a permanent record of such.

Now, notice my terminology there: voted. When the clan was setup the clan leader was a woman called foxx_in_socks, eventually following a vote from the majority of the clan, I replaced her. Everything (including the rules, the servers and even my position) is carried out by a majority clan vote. The only real benefit I wield is that I cast a deciding vote in the case of a tie. Yes, I may ultimateely control the server but if I start going against the rules of the clan myself, people would call me a hypocrite and leave. The fact that the clan is still going after 12 years should at least be a testament to that not being the case. The point here being that a majority voting democracy =/= despotism.
If I was a despot I'd do whatever I liked...I play 1p myself, so I'd get rid of all those pesky 3rd person ballerinas. However this exact vote has come up at least twice and each time the majority want both 1p/3p, so that's the accepted setup. Hell, if any =SM= members want to jump in an call me a despot in this thread they're welcome to, pretty much free speech of our members here If a member even wanted to kick me out, technically they could do so.

At the end of the day, you broke the rules you were banned. Your rant about the rest is pretty irrelevent to me. My only personal notice of you was using caps repeatedly, followed by me warning you, followed by you saying you'd ignore me and carry on, then me muting you for a round. You do come across as someone that tries to sit on the acceptable side of the rules, but only just. For this I'd ask that the SM members keep a close eye on you, not just for you breaking the rules but also if they do need to take further action against you I'd like to also see evidence of it.

Anyway, like I said it doesn't appear that you're banned. So no need to worry that this is probably one of the worst ban appeals I've seen.
For future reference we generally look more favourably on the "I intentionally TKed someone, sorry won't happen again" approach as opposed to the "I TKed someone twice but fuck you and your rules and lets rant about some events from a decade ago that you have no possession of the facts over". It smacks more of attention seeking than anything legitimate.

5/7: a perfect ban appeal

p.s. I'm going to re-read you post and have a shot for every time you say despot!

p.p.s Fuck me, that's 11 shots (including shotbox & post). Tonight is going to be messy!

Now leave me to my despotism before I ban you all! muahahaha!

[Rook]

Well my replies might be a little delayed, as still on holiday travelling around Cyprus.

Firstly looking at the configs, it doesn't look like you're currently banned. So either you're banned under a different name or the ban was temporary and expired. If you are still banned then the admin that made the ban can decide what happens next. I wouldn't personally lift a ban based on your post as it's more of a random lengthy rant than an actual ban appeal.

Secondly, your favourite word: despot. (noun: despot; plural noun: despots. a ruler or other person who holds absolute power, typically one who exercises it in a cruel or oppressive way.) - well I guess that's me then! Although I didn't ban you. You can probably see from the clan rules that we cover abuse of admin powers. Assuming someone had abused their powers, we generally ask for evidence. There's nothing random guests love more than gathering evidence of an admin abusing their powers. Should any evidence of that nature be presented, it goes to a clan-wide vote of whether to eject said member (which coincidentally carries a permanent server ban too). You may think this is just for random appeasement, but we've now ejected 3 members overs the years for abusing admin powers.

But I digress... you're not actually accusing us of abusing powers; you started your rant by admitting you teamkilled someone. twice. so intentionally. The rules that we've voted on as a whole, say we should make a ban. So you were banned.

You seem to take umbridge that for certain actions we carry a fixed penalty e.g. a ban but we don't specify a duration. Some common sense here would be nice, as all events are not equal. Should we be harsher on a rank 60 player TKing in the spawn, as opposed to an LMBing newbie who thinks it's FFA. Both actions carry a ban but there must be some discretion and flexability on how it's administered. You make it sound like it gives admins the power to be overly harsh, but it's quite the opposite: if we had to equate fixed durations to every possible ban reason then I'd probably just make those durations as permanent.

You should understand that adminning a gamee - a hobby, no one gets paid here (The servers cost quite a bit of money to run!) adminning the servers takes time out of admins game. While you run around shouting in caps, our admins are dropping down the scoreboard as they need to spectate to see what reported players are getting up to.

You mentioned that others seem to get away without being kicked or banned. This in itself shows ignorance: when we kick or ban someone it simply looks like said player has left the game to you random guests on the server. It may take a few minutes e.g. gathering videos or screenshots before a player is kicked. Just because we don't consult or inform you before an action is taken, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

You make a great reference to the standing ban with the Wonka clan. To add perspective here (and we do have all the posts relating to this ) the reason that ban came about was that specific clan were bullying a player who frequented the server. The player (not an SM player I might add) played on the BF2 servers, because his carer did. The guy was mentally handicapped. Several members of the wonka clan (which in itslf was a veyr small clan) took it upon themselves to cause as much trouble as possible. They did get banned. They created new accounts and came back to cause more trouble and abuse. At the time I was a moderator on the EA forums, so did confirm whether banning an entire clan was acceptable given that there may have been a couple of members at the time that weren't taking part. EA to be fair confirmed this was acceptable. Therefore they were banned.

Yes, a over a decade later, they're still banned. Their actions at the time were serious enough to warrant a permanent ban.

If you're of the belief that purposely and systematically bullying those who don't have the capacity to defend themselves equally is acceptable behaviour then that's your choice (but I suggest you take a good hard look at yourself if that's the case). We on the otherhand voted as a majority to ban all of these players and keep a permanent record of such.

Now, notice my terminology there: voted. When the clan was setup the clan leader was a woman called foxx_in_socks, eventually following a vote from the majority of the clan, I replaced her. Everything (including the rules, the servers and even my position) is carried out by a majority clan vote. The only real benefit I wield is that I cast a deciding vote in the case of a tie. Yes, I may ultimateely control the server but if I start going against the rules of the clan myself, people would call me a hypocrite and leave. The fact that the clan is still going after 12 years should at least be a testament to that not being the case. The point here being that a majority voting democracy =/= despotism.
If I was a despot I'd do whatever I liked...I play 1p myself, so I'd get rid of all those pesky 3rd person ballerinas. However this exact vote has come up at least twice and each time the majority want both 1p/3p, so that's the accepted setup. Hell, if any =SM= members want to jump in an call me a despot in this thread they're welcome to, pretty much free speech of our members here If a member even wanted to kick me out, technically they could do so.

At the end of the day, you broke the rules you were banned. Your rant about the rest is pretty irrelevent to me. My only personal notice of you was using caps repeatedly, followed by me warning you, followed by you saying you'd ignore me and carry on, then me muting you for a round. You do come across as someone that tries to sit on the acceptable side of the rules, but only just. For this I'd ask that the SM members keep a close eye on you, not just for you breaking the rules but also if they do need to take further action against you I'd like to also see evidence of it.

Anyway, like I said it doesn't appear that you're banned. So no need to worry that this is probably one of the worst ban appeals I've seen.
For future reference we generally look more favourably on the "I intentionally TKed someone, sorry won't happen again" approach as opposed to the "I TKed someone twice but fuck you and your rules and lets rant about some events from a decade ago that you have no possession of the facts over". It smacks more of attention seeking than anything legitimate.

5/7: a perfect ban appeal

p.s. I'm going to re-read you post and have a shot for every time you say despot!

p.p.s Fuck me, that's 11 shots (including shotbox & post). Tonight is going to be messy!

Now leave me to my despotism before I ban you all! muahahaha!

Thank you for the comprehensive reply, and i trust you are enjoying your holiday.

To begin with: Yes I did admit that I actually did tk, and I did, and it was wrong, and I was told, and I accept that, and would have been and still am happy to wait out any ban you feel I deserve for the infraction, though once again mere moments before iirc it was =SM=Cam being told by another SM member to "stop teamkilling" so i o find it interesting that what one person gets told off for, the other is literally punished for, when it was the same act, now you might be tempted to say that members get treated differently to non members, but then how you can possibly claim to be unbias or not totalitarian in your approach is belong me. I will indeed try to be vigilant of admin abuse and will seek to posses "evidence" of this should I see it occur, as you have rightly asked me.

As for where you refer to yourself as a despot, that is a great shame, I had nothing against you personally before you said that. But I am sworn against despotism and tyranny, and so you must be my mortal enemy, not that I would attack you or seek to do anything 'about you' but I morally must state my view on despotism and announce my hatred of it to those who would seek to call themselves 'despots' and so would seek as despots do to cause great harm to the innocent masses.

"But I digress... you're not actually accusing us of abusing powers" - Okay, sure.

"You make a great reference to the standing ban with the Wonka clan. To add perspective here (and we do have all the posts relating to this tongue.gif) the reason that ban came about was that specific clan were bullying a player who frequented the server. The player (not an SM player I might add) played on the BF2 servers, because his carer did. The guy was mentally handicapped. Several members of the wonka clan (which in itslf was a veyr small clan) took it upon themselves to cause as much trouble as possible. They did get banned. They created new accounts and came back to cause more trouble and abuse. At the time I was a moderator on the EA forums, so did confirm whether banning an entire clan was acceptable given that there may have been a couple of members at the time that weren't taking part. EA to be fair confirmed this was acceptable. Therefore they were banned." - Thank you for the context, i too would have done anything in my power to protect the victim.

"If you're of the belief that purposely and systematically bullying those who don't have the capacity to defend themselves equally is acceptable behavior then that's your choice" that is a logical fallacy and you know that isn't my point of view, lacking the context of the wonka situation you can't possibly suggest I support them, well you can, but it is baseless and serves as nothing but putting spin on a story.

"At the end of the day, you broke the rules you were banned. Your rant about the rest is pretty irrelevant to me. My only personal notice of you was using caps repeatedly, followed by me warning you, followed by you saying you'd ignore me and carry on, then me muting you for a round. You do come across as someone that tries to sit on the acceptable side of the rules, but only just. For this I'd ask that the SM members keep a close eye on you, not just for you breaking the rules but also if they do need to take further action against you I'd like to also see evidence of it." - Yes I deserved the ban, sure it can be irrelevant much of your reply is also irrelevant to me, but here we are. Be sure though that I do not gain unfair attention form SM, if you paranoidly tell people to 'keep an eye on that one' they will see demons everywhere, so just be careful about over reaching. As for my being someone who likes to sit on the right side of the rules, yes I am. The worst I will do is talk in caps occasionally, this is so I can actually see what I am saying in the chat, my vision is poor and the chat box is tiny, and because of how I rush type I need to be able to see my text so I can make it make sense. If thats seriously such a problem, i will attempt to refrain, though as before, you are welcome to mute me and that way you don't have to read my text, but a kick/ban for text related anything that isnt abuse or spam is a bit weird to me. ill go cehck your rules again and see if it says "no caps" but if thats the case your gunna have to ban a lot of people, caps are very common.

"Anyway, like I said it doesn't appear that you're banned. So no need to worry that this is probably one of the worst ban appeals I've seen.
For future reference we generally look more favourably on the "I intentionally TKed someone, sorry won't happen again" approach as opposed to the "I TKed someone twice but fuck you and your rules and lets rant about some events from a decade ago that you have no possession of the facts over". It smacks more of attention seeking than anything legitimate.
" - Only thing I will say to that, I am the kind of person who is a mirror, what you direct at me I will redirect at you 3 fold, so you may have noticed in the game chat when you are polite to me, I will be polite to you [9 times out of 10] because you actually bothered to ask me nicely, the less nice someone is to me the less co-operative I am and less nice I will be to them. And the ruder and blunter someone is to me, the ruder and blunter i will be to them, this is only right and fair in the universe. To be treated as you treat others.

Moving forward from this situation: I will attempt to observe the rules, and simply enjoy playing the game. Thanks for resolving this situation for me.

P.S Don't become a despot irl ;] then you and i may actually meet on a real battlefield someday!

P.P.S Nope it still says my Ip is banned.

[MonkeyFiend]

6 more shots. staaahhhppp!

[Rook]

Then Unban my Ip so I can shut up and leave T.T [despotism - take another shot]

[MonkeyFiend]

ahh actually my bad, the bottom of the configs was clipped. Ban was listed as intTK for 27.78 hours (don't ask).

[The Malefic Trou...]

ahh actually my bad, the bottom of the configs was clipped. Ban was listed as intTK for 27.78 hours (don't ask).

Why 27.78 hours?

[MonkeyFiend]

Why 27.78 hours?

Ban was 100000 seconds

[Nexton]

I am a despot, and I run a despotist community

[The Malefic Trou...]

I am compost and I run a composting community

[Bucket]

I am shitpost, and I run a shitposting community

[AsDeR]

I am fat, and I don't run