ban appeal Options

[SirCornwell]

Good evening gentlemen,

some players might know me, some might not.
I'd like to bring a question on the round table.
I've been recently banned and I wanted to respectfully know the reason. It might refer to a specific situation. Correct me if I am wrong:

On a specific day last week the map "Outpost" was chosen on your server. When a mason placed the last masonic chieftain to the mason spawnpoint (into the house) I switched from aga to mason and tried to kill the chieftain.
The reason is, as you probably know, players feel much sympathy to unbalance the gameplay so I did nothing but fighting for justice. This case happens pretty often so I was encouraged to do something.
To be honest it probably wasn't the best behaviour however is it the right decision to ban someone who's about to bring back balance to the match?
It was in the interest of all Agathians to get a fair match.
Hopefully we can find a solution together. In addition I'm very interested to know who banned me.

Gamename: Sir Cornwell of York
Steam profile: http://steamcommunity.com/id/SirCornwell/
Time: one week ago
Circumstances: see above


Kind regards
Sir Cornwell of York

[Sir Robin (not s...]

Hi Sir Cornwell. I'm interested in how you were planning to kill the chieftain, because AFAIK, you can't do that by attacking him.

Even if you could, how is that bringing balance?

[SirCornwell]

Hello Sir Robin,

well then in this case you tell me something new. I didn't know that.
What I know is that I got banned as a mason right after I raised my sword and hit the masonic chieftain.
In my personal view killing the chieftain would bring back the balance because I've experienced that as an agathian player it's practically impossible to win the match on Outpost
when a chieftain is placed by a mason right to the mason spawnpoint on the last stage.
I'm always open to hear successful stories in relation to that however in my entire time when I played on your server (This has been numerous hours of gameplay) I never noticed that
Agathians have made it to kill the last chieftain on the mason spawnpoint.
The way of doing so wasn't very smart from me in general - I have to admit. However what I won't do is to get on my knees and beg for mercy like other players in this area of the forum.
I am a proud and respectful player. When I do a specific action like this one it's always based on an ethical reason. And therefore I will always remain true to my principles
when I notice that players of a specific faction are fooled. That doesn't mean I would do the same again tomorrow or the next time but I want to show you my personal view relating to this case.

[Sir Robin (not s...]

We'll have to wait for the admin how banned you to come and describe their side of the story. And to make a decision whether to lift your ban or not. If that doesn't happen in 3 days after your appeal, we'll provisionally lift it.

In my personal view killing the chieftain would bring back the balance because I've experienced that as an agathian player it's practically impossible to win the match on Outpost
when a chieftain is placed by a mason right to the mason spawnpoint on the last stage.

If you were able to do that, I'd feel cheated, no matter on which team I'm playing on. Similar things actually happen on maps with kings/generals, where somebody deliberately TKs the king. This is worse than normal team killing, because it cheats all other players on both teams. So I don't think it brings balance.

I'm always open to hear successful stories in relation to that however in my entire time when I played on your server (This has been numerous hours of gameplay) I never noticed that
Agathians have made it to kill the last chieftain on the mason spawnpoint.

One way to counter this is to attack the chieftain before they get him near spawn. The chieftain tries to go after you and can be killed before they can protect him there.

There are other situations, where the defending team can make a target hard to get to. On the one hand this is a dickish move, which can be abused for easy win. On the other hand, it makes the battles more tactical and makes us try to solve the problems in new ways.

However what I won't do is to get on my knees and beg for mercy like other players in this area of the forum.
I am a proud and respectful player. When I do a specific action like this one it's always based on an ethical reason. And therefore I will always remain true to my principles
when I notice that players of a specific faction are fooled. That doesn't mean I would do the same again tomorrow or the next time but I want to show you my personal view relating to this case.

We don't want to make players beg to be unbanned. What we look for is assurance that they understand why the rules are there and why they shouldn't break them.

[The Malefic Trou...]

This is easily the most bullshit appeal I've ever seen. I'm speechless. Wow.

[SirCornwell]

This is easily the most bullshit appeal I've ever seen. I'm speechless. Wow.

On the recommendation of Sir Robin I came here to discuss with you SM supervisors in a normal and respectful kind and not to deal with useless short comments which are written without thinking.

Alright Robin, let's wait then.

[FrostBurn]

Hi! Perhaps it was me who banned you. I remember banning people for attacking the chieftain in their own spawn.

Lots of masons were complaining, I spectated and witnesses someone attacking the chieftain.
Which is a team member, albeit just an AI. Attacking it is against the rules.
I honestly didn't know you couldn't actually kill it (but neither did you, right? your intent was to kill it, so that's what we are looking at here).
Also I think that in your swings (if it was indeed you, here I am talking about the one I banned) you accidentally hit another player or two. It is accidental damage but it was caused by recklessly attacking your own chieftain.

What actually bothers me a lot is when people play traitor and go against their team's objective. You ruin the game for 60+ people. It's like when a king suicides a few seconds after their crowning. Bullshit. Just because *you* don't like it, doesn't mean everyone doesn't like it.

It is not true, moreover, that it is impossible to win if Masons put their chiefs in the spawn. It is hard true, that's why Agathians have to rush and kill them before it's too late. If they can't do it, Agathians have only themselves to blame. I always play agatha on that map. Once I managed to kill the chief in the spawn firepotting it to death. And another time I baited it out and he followed me, and someone else came and killed it (I of course was killed shortly after the bait but that was the plan).

I think the ban could be removed if you were repentant and agreed to have fucked up (it wasn't a great offense, after all), but honestly I just see you putting yourself above the law (server rules): you say
"When I do a specific action like this one it's always based on an ethical reason. And therefore I will always remain true to my principles
when I notice that players of a specific faction are fooled."

So for the moment, I think the ban should stay. If only because we got to see this facet of your character, and personally I think we could do without people who think they are batman "doing what they think is right" on our server, regardless of the rules, and never apologize because they were "oh so right and just".

But hey if the other admins think otherwise no problem, I don't have anything personal against you.

[Bucket]

Problem is with these type of (role)players is that they don't feel/think the ban is deserved and in their eyes we're in the wrong and not him/her.

This is proven by him saying ;

I am a proud and respectful player. When I do a specific action like this one it's always based on an ethical reason. And therefore I will always remain true to my principles
when I notice that players of a specific faction are fooled. That doesn't mean I would do the same again tomorrow or the next time but I want to show you my personal view relating to this case.

Meaning I do as I please so long I can come up with an excuse that is only logical to me while disregarding the server rules. Nor can I find any apologise or accept that he was in the wrong by attacking the chieftain.

Though I feel a perma ban would be harsh and a temp ban more suitable for this situation. Since you issued the ban you decide whatever happens to it.

But thats just my two cents

[SirCornwell]

First of all thank you guys for the replies to clear this out.

Problem is with these type of (role)players is that they don't feel/think the ban is deserved and in their eyes we're in the wrong and not him/her.

At the moment we're couple of smart people who discuss and try to find a solution alltogether. There's currently no roleplaying or any kind of roleplayer.

Hi! Perhaps it was me who banned you. I remember banning people for attacking the chieftain in their own spawn.

Lots of masons were complaining, I spectated and witnesses someone attacking the chieftain.
Which is a team member, albeit just an AI. Attacking it is against the rules.
I honestly didn't know you couldn't actually kill it (but neither did you, right? your intent was to kill it, so that's what we are looking at here).
Also I think that in your swings (if it was indeed you, here I am talking about the one I banned) you accidentally hit another player or two. It is accidental damage but it was caused by recklessly attacking your own chieftain.

Yes, FrostBurn it's right. Like you I also didn't know that the chieftain couldn't be killed by same faction members however I clearly state that it was my intention to kill the chieftain and to end up that "unfair" round. I take the full responsibility for that. And yes, it was an accident that other players close to the chieftain were hit.
Though I strictly underline that I don't feel well at all to do these kinds of actions in a match! And additonally it has been the first time I did so. In general it would have been easier to kick the player who placed the mason chieftain at the masons' spawnpoint so at the end this conflict wouldn't have raised up in the best case. But as it's written in this thread some of you have got a different opinion about fairness and unfairness dealing with this specific situation anyway. However that's no problem. As long as we can discuss about it everything is fine.

What actually bothers me a lot is when people play traitor and go against their team's objective. You ruin the game for 60+ people. It's like when a king suicides a few seconds after their crowning. Bullshit. Just because *you* don't like it, doesn't mean everyone doesn't like it.

It has nothing to do with acting like a traitor and the game wouldn't be ruined for 60+ players. Agathians felt being cheated by this, therefore I took action to balance it. I already mentioned it, it basically wasn't the best idea to find a solution for this issue for acting in this kind. But anyway I am not someone who accepts everything especially when I notice that there's unbalance. There are players who dislike me and players who respect me much due to this behaviour. I can live with that. If you say your opinion in public there're always supporters and rivals.

I think the ban could be removed if you were repentant and agreed to have fucked up (it wasn't a great offense, after all), but honestly I just see you putting yourself above the law (server rules): you say
"When I do a specific action like this one it's always based on an ethical reason. And therefore I will always remain true to my principles
when I notice that players of a specific faction are fooled."

Let me say it in a simple way. I won't fully agree anyway because I took action for something which was caused by another person. I put my hands on it yes, but I am not the actual initiator.
If we would come to a solution alltogether that would be fine. However it's no problem if this ban would remain forever.
It's always fun to play on your server and the server community is respectful (in most cases ). In addition, on the majority of my playtime I've been your server.
However there're even lots of official servers which are more stable in relation to the lag.
If you want to ban players for lifetime who supported your server to be on a high combat level and those who made custom maps on your server popular so then keep the ban active if you think it's a wise decision.

I don't regret that I fought for justice, I only regret that it had to end up in a way for trying to kill the chieftain.

At the end it's up to you guys. You have got the final say. And I will accept both decisions.

But hey if the other admins think otherwise no problem, I don't have anything personal against you.

Same for me

[Sir Robin (not s...]

It has nothing to do with acting like a traitor and the game wouldn't be ruined for 60+ players. Agatheans felt being cheated by this, therefore I took action to balance it.

You were trying to attack the mason chieftain as a mason player. If we forget for a moment that this doesn't cause him damage, it's a traitorous behavior, because you are acting in favor of the agatheans.

Many players feel, or at least are complaining, that drags are unfair. Or that feints are unfair. Or whatever else is unfair. If we remove all the "unfair" things it will be quite a dull game IMO.

Let me say it in a simple way. I won't fully agree anyway because I took action for something which was caused by another person.

Again you are assuming that the other person has done something illegal, or at least something that is not right. That is not the case. It's not as easy as it sounds to "put" the chieftain there. The agatheans have enough time to attack him before he goes there, which makes him try to chase after his attacker and become an easier target. So it's the fault of the agatheans if they didn't do that.

Even when he's under the spawn point, he's not invincible. Just yesterday we were in this position and we managed to kill him and win the game.


Regarding the ban, I'm also for a temp one. And since you've been banned for more than a week already, I'd say it's enough. Again, our rules are that the admin who issued the ban has to make the decision, so this is just my opinion.

[SirCornwell]

You were trying to attack the mason chieftain as a mason player. If we forget for a moment that this doesn't cause him damage, it's a traitorous behavior, because you are acting in favor of the agatheans.

Again you are assuming that the other person has done something illegal, or at least something that is not right. That is not the case.

Yes, it's right the case. Like I said I wasn't the actual initiator. However I got the feeling we can discuss as long as we want our opinions about that will remain different. And to name it a "traitorous behaviour" is an offense I won't tolerate, Sir Robin.

It's not as easy as it sounds to "put" the chieftain there. The agatheans have enough time to attack him before he goes there, which makes him try to chase after his attacker and become an easier target. So it's the fault of the agatheans if they didn't do that.

Saying it like that is always a good excuse. 1-2 skilled players are able to rapidly place the chieftain to the spawnpoint. It's not a big deal.

Regarding the ban, I'm also for a temp one. And since you've been banned for more than a week already, I'd say it's enough. Again, our rules are that the admin who issued the ban has to make the decision, so this is just my opinion.

Unban me or let it be. To join your server again in the future will be very doubtful anyway. Every server should be based on strict rules. However some SM members seem to easily abuse them and ban players right after 1-2 seconds. A short notification would solve many problems and safe your time to deal with multiple ban appeals on this forum. It proofs that many things are unstructured in this so called clan. If you run a huge server on chivalry then run and manage it professionally. Otherwise more and more skilled players will loose sympathy for you guys and your server. And what will remain on this server at the end? Rookies who recently bought this game for 2$ on steam. If you like it that way so then have fun in the future as long as a couple of people yet play chivalry.

[Bucket]

Bitch please, our servers are one of the most popular in the game for years! When you enter our server, an image such as this one pops up

[SirCornwell]

Yes, no question. Without real competition it's always simple to be on the top

[Bucket]

Exactly so a twat on a high horse such as yourself isn't exactly a huge loss for us

[SirCornwell]

Well I see that's the way you like to talk. You're just a simple man who get abusive if you got a lack of arguments.
Time is too valuable to talk on that level. However I'm sure you'll find someone who will perfectly match your low level of conversation. Best of luck for that.
And always keep in mind: Pride comes before fall.

[Sneeky]

Pride is a load of Nonsense tbh

[AsDeR]

Tomatoes are a fruit.

[Bucket]

And always keep in mind: Pride comes before fall.

You forgot to tip your fedora.