(long post) My thoughts on unlocks, MonkeyFiend-rant-a-thon Options

[MonkeyFiend]

I just wanted to post my thoughts (long rant) on the use of unlocks. On our server the use of all weapons , including unlocks is allowed. It has been this way since the beggining of the clan.

Additionally its a requirement of ranked servers.

My feelings on this is that unlocks should be allowed as they are part of the game. People often complain about 'unlocks' when what they actually mean is certain specific weapons (mostly the f2000/l85/g36e)

I can't remember the last time was accussed of being skilless for using the mp7/jackhamemr etc.,

Now with regards to the ones that people do moan about, they all have their pro's and cons. People moan about noobtube for example - the AK/f2000 are powerful on auto, accurate on single shot and the noobtube can be devestating if used correctly.

Most of the people moaning about this tend to play medic - who are faster (more stamina), can heal themselves after each fight and get additional points for hurling medi-packs around the map and even more points for reviving dead players.

While a medic may not have the firepower of an assault trooper (which is correct IMO) they have advantages in other areas as above.

Basically if there was a weapon that gave a distinct advantage to the game play - everyone would use it.

In one of the earlier patches PKM accuracy was increased and I witnessed many servers where 95% of players were using PKM. Obviously this was fixed in another patch. (1.3-1.4?)

What I mean is that if the f2000 was such a good weapon (and therefore worthly of being called skilless) then surely everyone would use it.

For me it gives some balance - the MEC assault uses an AK which is comparable (and probably better) than the f2000 and frankly is much better than the M16. In my eyes using an f2000 restores some of the balance of the two assault teams.

Other pros/cons exist e.g.. l85 is great on single shot but pants on full auto etc., but this is mostly to highlight my point.

Those people that insist we should be using unlocks are trying to restrict everyone else to using the weapons that they feel most comfortable dealing with - this would be like me saying everyone else has to use noobtube. (although I think that might be fun )

Basically what I'm getting at is this:

if certain guns (like l85/f2000) were too good everyone would use them.

If a player indeed lacks skill and has to use a 'skilless' g36e, then surely a 'skillful' player with a non-unlock should still triumph overall. On the times I've used the m16 or ak I've not noticed any difference in killing people regardless of their own choice of weapon.

one on one battles rarely come down to the choice of gun, instead they come down to the individual skill or tactics of those involved.

Give me a private noob with a g36e instead of a decent player with an mp5 or similar guff non-unlock anyday - irrelevent of my own choice of weapons. If some unlocked weapons are indeed better, then why don't you use them yourselves?

forgive me if I'm not a believer of resounding altruism over the internet and the attempt of 'but I'd 0wn everyone too much, rofl' will, quite rightly, make you sound like a gibbering retard.

In the world of bf2 stats etc., if someone can do better with certain guns then they will use them, unless practicing for things like ED/Clanbase etc,.

What I believe is that some people choose to use non-unlocks in general games simply so they can (at least in their minds) elevate themselves above the rest of the server - so that they can feel good about condecending on people who do choose to use unlocks. Basically like giving themselves the moral highground for not using 'nooby' weapons.

I personally find that quite sad.

When I play US assualt, I use the f2000 - simply I find this to be balanced to the AK. I also don't like the 3 shot burst type guns like the m16.

Finally looking at the actual stats of the guns, the best on overall accuracy/power/recoil/spread/deviation etc., is the AK.

A non unlock in case you didn't notice.

[Lightning]

in my words be support and use a rpk or saw simply the best

[Magik5]

the fact that i use the l85 - without fail - each round (unless i get bored and whip out the n00btube) lends a great deal to the fact i usually rank in the top 5 of almost every game.

i use this gun because it was the first gun i ever unlocked, liked it, and stuck with it, which means i pretty much have mastered exactly how to use it in any given situation.

now if that makes me a n00b for using this gun then so be it, as i agree with the fact that if i was to use the m16/ak101 i would fail at life (and believe me ive tried).

people who have mastered these default guns are just as good, if not better then i am with the l85.

take =R6= Sam84 for example, i know how to get past his "crouch behind a wall then uncrouch/shoot/crouch within a split second" trick. So when im in the open and he is doing as said, and i kill him, he ALWAYS either calls me a cheat, or an unlock n00b.

now the g36e, i was saying to tess this morning on the server that its good close up, but any kind of distance i just cant use as i completely miss/get killed (clearly user error as i get pwnd by people with this gun very often, most arent even that good). this is why i like the l85 as at a distance i can abuse most people.

this leads me back to =R6= Sam 84 - ive never seen him use an unlock gun, yet he always manages to abuse me at almost any distance with the no zoom default guns (m16/ak101) - and this i find VERY hypocritical that he calls me a unlock n00b/cheat when he has the exact same skill as i have with the 185, but just with a different gun.

my point being is basically the same is minkys - it doesnt matter what gun you use, as long as you can actually use it to its full potential, (this being both default and unlocks) then you will have the edge over any oponent you come up against who doesnt know how to use the current gun they have chosen.

people who use defaults feel that when they get killed they have an excuse to hide behind "you fkin unlock n00b" for example when the actual reason they got killed has nothing to do with the gun that was up against them, its the oponents skill level

[Magik5]

lightening how the fudge do u hit anyone at a distance, say all the way across the bridge at train/gatehouse, with the support guns (any for that matter) i suck so much with them - even close range is a chore

[GoochTyke]

Now with regards to the ones that people do moan about, they all have their pro's and cons. People moan about noobtube for example - the AK/f2000 are powerful on auto, accurate on single shot and the noobtube can be devestating if used correctly.

i acctually moaned on the server earlier saying " noob tuber" ( this may be what prompted the rant?) you prob read the log

if so ill explain WHY i said it, i myself use the f2000 and noob tube , not often but i do like to do it for a change. i dont moan at gettin toobed , but if yer gonna do it dont do it 2 foot from me blowing is own fookin head of at the same time, which he did 3 times

[MACKNM1945]

a lot of the players who use the default weapons instead of unlocks, play clanwars were its often not allowed to use unlocks.

Anyway, the m16 is a very accurate and deadly weapon if used in the way it needs... but I personaly think that goes for every weapon. I prefer the m4 wich a lot of people think its a sheit weapon. The more you practice iwth a weapon the better you get with it...unlock or no unlock....

[MonkeyFiend]

i acctually moaned on the server earlier saying " noob tuber" ( this may be what prompted the rant?) you prob read the log

if so ill explain WHY i said it, i myself use the f2000 and noob tube , not often but i do like to do it for a change. i dont moan at gettin toobed , but if yer gonna do it dont do it 2 foot from me blowing is own fookin head of at the same time, which he did 3 times

Hey there Gooch - was nothing to do with you saying 'noob tuber' - I wazs mostly bored in work, combined with a lot of coffee and some pent up ranting to be done.

This has been a bug bear for me for years, I just finally got round to having a bitch (or at least trying to explain some points of view )

As for the noobtube (which I call it myself) for me I'll always try to do very long range shots (they are the most satisfying ) occasionally while running around with a noobtube someone will pop out from around the corner and start shooting, sometimes you don't have any choice but to fire (or die)

There's a big difference people and people who can hit moving tagets (requiring you to lead the sights) at range with a ndae launcher and the people that specialise in running up to people and firing pretty much point blank, that sort of person is the same that uses medic grenades as a primary weapon

Monkey

[MonkeyFiend]

a lot of the players who use the default weapons instead of unlocks, play clanwars were its often not allowed to use unlocks.

Anyway, the m16 is a very accurate and deadly weapon if used in the way it needs... but I personaly think that goes for every weapon. I prefer the m4 wich a lot of people think its a sheit weapon. The more you practice iwth a weapon the better you get with it...unlock or no unlock....

Agree with that - any weapon that you've practised with for long enough you expert at handling. well.. expect maybe the jackhammer thats a big fat pile of shit

[Lightning]

if you wanna hit stuff far away hit in 2 shot bursts and you will basicly kill anything

[=R6= Warduk]

TBH i dont think i have the patience to bother with the SA80 cos its just too erratic to use for multi-purpose. I personaly preffer the M16 over any gun as it has most reliablilty accuracy and power of all the medic weapons. But its the idea of only using basic weapons is soo drilled into my head that its a bad thing in some ways but also with the fact that you may need to try a diffrent kit, you dont just assume that the unlockable version is more powerful or more accurate just because you have to wok for it.
As lightning says the SAW and RPK are the best support weapons because they are great to use in short controlled bursts. And with the M16, anything over 50yrds away you gotta use single shot. And aslong as you get a nice rythm going with your M16 bursts then is paractically full auto in close combat which makes it a very good weapon.
The reasons for chosing not to use unlocks are the simple fact that we play in league matches and the requirements are that you are not allowed to use them. Not because they are noob weapons (some are a bit too unbalanced) but becuase its frustrating that we dont use them and sometims the unbalance gets rather annoying with it being so forced into you that unlocks are a no go area.
Hope you see where im coming from on this and may make you think before you say "noob gun" or react to someone accusing you of it, and just simply think its because of the inbalance in the features of these weapons that is the problem.

[MonkeyFiend]

Actually I can't use the l85 either - I've noticed it can be very accurate on single shot, but I have a tendancy to use noob tube at range and full auto close up, so I've never really gotten the hang of using it.

I can absolutely understand not using unlocked weapons if you enter leagues where they are not used, also if you're just practising for them.

As for the weapons balance, it goes back to the previous post - if a weapon was to heavily weighted then the simple fact is everyone would use it. Judging by the general kits I pick up, there's a bit of bias towards g36e (which I do think is suprisngly accurate) ~ however looking at the kits people use, there's still a fair spread, which implies that the weapons are relatively well balanced. Unless people are choosing to be masochistic.

In times when they wern't balanced the choice of kits reflected that - the patch allowing loads of clays to be placed, after that about half of an average server was playing sniper. With the patch with the PKM, about 90% were playing support (!)


So if the weapons: standard and unlocks are relatively balanced, there shouldn't really much for people to moan about whether people use unlocks or not

well... except clays on spawns... I fucking hate that

[McJaffa]

It has all been said in this post, all it seems to come down to is using what suits the individual style constantly. For ages I almost exclusively used the RPK/SAW because that was my chosen role in matches. It lead to me becoming very good at support role and owning people from any range especially RPK. It has the side effect of making you weaker with other weapons though. Me? M16? urghhhhh suckage mostly.
If you see from the history stats on BF2S, some guys play non-stop, and play with the same weapons and kits all the time. That is going to make them better in a battle than me.
I just do not have the time to devote so many hours to BF2, and I am sorry but I would feel like pulling my toenails off with pliers if I spent even a fraction of the time some people spend playing the exact same weapon on the same kit, on the exact same map in infantry-only mode all day every day that some people do. Variety is the spice of life as they say, but it's each to his own. If you want to specialise then good for you, and it explains why some people call others cheats. (I always slag off snipers, partly because I suck at sniper and partly because they are, frankly, all gay ) My boredom threshold is just lower.

BTW< does this qualify as a rant if I am agreeing with most of it?

[MonkeyFiend]

...

BTW< does this qualify as a rant if I am agreeing with most of it?

I'd give it a C- for ranting, must try harder next time

[=R6= Raile]

Hey! I heard this thread was over here... And now that I finally got onto your website, I'll throw in my own thoughts

As for unlocks, the non-public players, or the clan match/tournament community generally looks at using unlocks as bad proof as to whether you are actually any good at the game. Most of them seem to agree with me, that the unlocks in the game are not balanced with the non-unlockable weapons. Granted I would suggest that some are closer then others, as I don't believe all the non-unlock guns are balanced with each other, either. If you look at the stats of all the guns, accuracy, ammo in a clip, recoil, damage, etc., I don't think there isn't atleast 1 of the 2 unlockables, which is better then the non-unlock of its same kit. God, the G36E is ridiculously powerful, in that it has crazy accuracy at long range, and has little to no recoil, making all 3 of its 3 round burst usually hit the target, if the first hits. Add to that it's crazy damage. The F2000 is ridiculous as well. Similar abilities as the G36E, with it's little to no recoil and massive damage.
Earlier in the game's life, most players didn't have all unlocks. I think, that had more to do with the beginning of this thought process that only to beat a player with a non-unlock weapon meant you were truely better then the other player, because that set the game at a level playing field.
Ever since me and my guys decided to play in tournaments and clan matches, where the rules are usually that you can't use unlocks, did we decide to promote only using non-unlocks. Using different guns all the time makes you a jack-of-all-trades, master of none, so do you really expect to beat a guy using the M16 if he ONLY uses it, and you dabble between it and unlocks? That was our theory at the time, and it paid off, as all of our players sucked at it, and complained a lot, using the M16, but within a few weeks made a HUGE jump in skill with it.

In and amongst all that happening, there has been, atleast within our clan, a bit of an "if you use unlocks you aren't any good" kind of association that we pass on to others. Partly my fault, as I often tell my guys, "what the hell do you care if a guy is killing you as much as you kill him, if he's using an unlock to do so? That means your better then him." Of course that has also brought along the chanting of unlock noob.. not necessarily what was intended.

anyways thats just a little info on why R6 don't support unlocks. of course lately tho I've been discussing with some of my guys about abolishing that.. as we aren't really in clan matches anymore.. will see what everyone thinks in our clan......
Oh yeah and this is just all my opinion

[MonkeyFiend]

some good points - although the bit where you say the non unlocks are balanced with each other... have you not seen the AK vs the M16??

From mainly playing assault, I've always felt the AK was balanced quite fairly against the F2000 - both being full auto with noobtube etc., If I had to rate the guns I'd put AK top, then f2000 then m16 much lower down (although this is obviously my opinion)

Steering away from personal opinions, to get some perspective I've posted the full stats of all guns in the game (the first tab lists a comparison against assult guns, with the g36e thrown in theere for fun) other tabs (see bottom) list the stats of all weapons.

http://sneakymonkeys.com/gunstats.htm

In brief the g36e does indeed kick some serious booty, but this seems to be the only really unbalanced weapon and the m16 does in fact out perform the f2000 in many respects (although I still hate burst shot so won't be using it )

cheers,

MonkeyFiend

[=R6= Raile]

"as I don't believe all the non-unlock guns are balanced with each other"

where did I say they were balanced with each other?