so im gonna make this really simple been on your servers for months never had a problem and then i say oh shit no negro when a friend teabags me and im banned for racism? my Team Speak info is 104.207.145.126:9114 password is 9of8 id rather have a 5 minute conversation with someone that isnt Draconix. preferably with someone who actually knows the difference between a racial slur and a different word for black. because this is just 10 new kinds of stupid. can add me on steam too if thats faster DarkenedxGospel ill be on for the next few hours.

Hello,

Draconix isn't to blame, our rules on that topic are strict and admins do only enforce them.
The "N word" is forbidden because its derogatory. More details here : http://www.sneakymonkeys.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1787

We tend to let the admin who made the ban decide whether or not to unban, but that won't happen by demanding stuff and making a scandal. You better try to understand why we are strict about racist LANGUAGE and agree with our rules if you want to play again on our servers.

Regards,
Fool

Agreed. In the english language negro has a (very) negative effect to it and as such is (very) bannable when the rules are applied. Since we are using the english language and not another one, the ban was justified.

are you kidding me? like you actually believe the word Negro is a racial slur IN the context that it was used? that's ridiculous and incredibly idiotic on your part. Negro is not Nigger. which is the "N" Word. Nigger, Melon Monkey, Jiggaboo, Moon Cricket, Porchmonkey. these are all examples of racial slurs. Negro is literally a skin color by definition. because it describes a color of skin does not make it a racist statement. thats like me saying "Oh your white." and you labeling me a a racist when you are in fact white. your rules on the server upon launch say No racist comments what i said was not and cannot be twisted into a racist statement period. "Aww shit no negro" is not in any way shape or form a racist statement directed at an individual with malicious intent. the only way that it could have been is if you had switched Negro with one of the aforementioned examples. so yes he is Totally at fault. you cant just decide because of personal opinion a word is racist when by definition it isnt a racial slur but the word where racial slurs originated from. ON TOP OF THAT your gonna slap me with a ban for saying it when you literally have a kid whose literal in game name is That Nigger Horton come and go on the server as he pleases? You'll allow homopohbia, sexism and non stop obscenities to run rampant on your lobby but someone says "oh shit no Negro." to a friend on a 2 thirds empty lobby is crossing the line? id love for you to explain how that begins to even make the smallest possible amount of sense period. because it does not at all.

Literally the definition in the context as i used it in is the following
adjective
3.
Anthropology. (no longer in technical use) of, relating to, or characteristic of one of the traditional racial divisions of humankind, generally marked by brown to black skin pigmentation, dark eyes, and tightly curled hair and including especially the indigenous peoples of Africa south of the Sahara.

my friend is black. im half black. so explain to me how the fuck can i be racist to half of myself?

on a whole other matter instead of Draconix simply saying something which we'd have happily complied with he bans me and then throws me an attitude while admitting he wasn't sure and had to ask a bunch of people who he clearly failed to describe what was said in the context it was said.

you guys really need to polish up on the difference between a statement of race and racism. As far as demanding anything im demanding nothing im simply stated my desire to speak with someone above Draconix because he was constantly saying things about higher ups making decisions so he's either a New Admin or incredibly low on the totem pole. i offered you my Team Speak Info and my steam info to make contacting me easier and hassle free for you i did not order you to use them i simply find it that verbally talking is generally easier to work out these kinds of issues where someone clearly misunderstood the context of what was being said furthermore I'm causing no "Scandal". When someone attempts to label me as a racist because he has no understanding of the word or conversation hes attempting to pass judgement on of course im not going to be polite because its not my job to educate people on the difference however you want to attempt to spin it Negro is not and never has been a racist word. so please drop the condescending attitudes and poor attempts at spinning some technical bullshit at me about the English language as you said so yourself the "N" word isnt acceptable but Nobody said it. nothing of a racist nature was ever uttered. so no the ban was not justified in the slightest sorry to shatter that concept for you.

I guess you didn't read the post I linked.

If you can't understand what is explained in it and think you've got the absolute knowledge in words and philosophy, then you won't be able to play on our servers, sorry.

I like how you decide to play on words, and send us a definition of "negro", completely ignoring the past behind that said word : in the vast array of racist words, "negro" is spot-on, textbook racism. On top of that yeah, I don't think you even took the time to look at server rules.
And you don't even come with an apology, only grief towards one of our admins and complete ignorance towards our rules, not mentioning the "lecture", which was not only boring but also, since it started from the point of view that "negro" wasn't a racial slur, wrong from top to bottom. Not a pleasant read.

But on the subject of the ban lifting itself, only the admin who issued the ban can lift it in those circumstances, so that would be... Draconix ! The guy you've been demeaning/insulting in your post, which, in my humble opinion, is not going to play in your favour. And if I was to advise him, I'd tell him not to lift the ban, seeing as we're never short of annoying people...

Regardless of what you think about if it is racism or not, this is our server, our rules. If you join our server you play by our rules, if you can't then you'll be promptly dealt with.

The word it self is still associated with discrimination. Besides we can't tell the colour of your skin or any other player so saying ''I can say it, because I am (half)black'' doesn't really justify it imo.

@DarkenedxGospel

can you talk about admin abuse with Monkeyfiend , Only ban situation we have to discuss on here.

I can not discuss an admin decision here but as you said if negro was in racist sentences , it can be named as racist but if not it can't be named as racist.


So i am giving you a right direction about admin complaints , please contact Monkeyfiend asap.

Other than that , keep ban appeal as simple as it is.

Best Regards.

If you'd read the rules we generally say that context is irrelevant. This is for the simple prupose of administration, the admins are here to play games not spend their entire time dealing with people hurling out insults. To make this clear: your mitigation is that this was a friend teabagging you; is anyone on the server other than yourself and your friend expected to know this? Admins aren't expected to start trying to ascertain context in any given insult or comments otherwise we'd all spend a hell of a lot more time getting to the bottom of everything. Of which 99% would be lies anyway ( e.g. I can callsomeone a faggot because I'm gay myself etc.)

Tell me, contextually if I as a random member of the public approached you in the street and said 'oh shit no, negro' to you, would you find this acceptable? Doubtful. Since we don't know (or frankly, don't care) whether people are the servers are usuing this language between friends, we have to take it in this way. Aside from that, in public chat it's not a private conversation between you and your friend.




We didn't label you as anything. The rules say no racist language (for any reason) - note the 'any reason' part includes stupid remakrs made to friends in the server. We're not labelling you as a racist, we're saying that you used racist language. which you did. A person's own ethnicity has no bearing on the rules and I find it pretty pathetic that you try to use that.



Nope, he'll end up being banned. But you also most understand that the admins are not paid to be there 24 hours a day, so sometimes it takes a bit of time to catch up.




Again, you or your friends ehtnicity has no bearing. The rules are simple and contextless and we're not expected to start trying to determine a persons enthnicty to judge whether it's a white person being racist or black person being racist. That frankly would be stupid. That's the thing with equality, everyone has to be treated equally so someone using racist language, regardless of their own ethnicity or conext gets treated the same.



The rules say racist language for any reason = ban. You used racist language, you got banned. There's nothing within the rules that suggests we should give you a warning. As previously mentioned context is irrelevant.



And you could perhaps polish up on the difference between a statement and slang terminology.

Another thing you'll find is the terminology negro? Do you find it offensive? perhaps not, however some people do. We therefore have to use rules that apply to everyone. e.g. http://www.virginia.edu/woodson/courses/aa...mes/bennett.htm



An admin doesn't have to defend their decision over something like steam. We see it a lot where someone gets banned is butthurt then begins a tirade that could last hours over steam trying to wheedle their way out of it. An admin makes a ban, the same admin can lift a ban if they wish. The other option is the clan as a whole can vote on an appeal or it can be referred to an independant 3rd party.



thanks. however all ban appeals are made on the forums



the top links from google:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=126708
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/am...my-9843757.html
https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index...01041249AAHB8l9
http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/692...e-to-it-and-why
http://www.hellonegro.com/2009/07/01/debat...gro-a-bad-word/
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/Negro
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb/08/op...plan8-2010feb08
http://www.virginia.edu/woodson/courses/aa...mes/bennett.htm

Understand even if you don't find the terminology offensive, others do.




Again, while I understand you might feel butthurt about it as far as I can see the ban was made for legitimate reasons


Anyway, I see not reason to overturn this ban.
I see no reason to accept a complaint regarding the behaviour of the admin (since the ban appears to be within the rules)

Thanks.

I was one of the people to whom Draconix referred to. I recommended that Draconix does issue a ban. This is because our job is to keep the peace on the server and keep it a friendly atmosphere, not to serve as miniature court judges or detectives which take the context or intent into account. It doesn't matter if you can write a whole essay sufficiently proving that in the past, negro wasn't used as a racial slur and thus it isn't one now. The real reason why a ban was issued is that you used vocabulary that we can presume a sufficient number of people will find offensive/uncomfortable and thus, to keep the peace, you were banned.

Take this with a grain of salt as this is just my opinion - I do not know if others share my opinion or would have done the same thing in my position.

okay one. if your gonna quote me use the full sentence. two your linking UK websites whose definitions of racial slurs are incredibly different then those here in america perfect example a pikey to you is an offensive name for a gypsy. its a sandwich here. there was no one offended. no one even mentioned it apart form my friend. thirdly Negro is not on your list for your original link so no i did read you apparently dont know the difference between negro and Nigger. And why the hell would i apologize? NO ONE was offended? should i apologize because your admin doesnt know the difference between a racial slur and a word used daily in speech by the black community? if someone walked up to me on the street and said "Oh Shit no Negro" no i wouldnt be offended id actually assume they're quoting Pulp Fiction at me. NOBODY logs on chiv and goes "oh lemme stop and go to different links before playing on a server because an admin may be too dense to know what racism actually is" no your gonna log in and say "oh No racism or intentional TK? okay." . a word in and of itself can not be defined as racist without the proper context to support it. if i had said something like "your a dirty Negro." yes i could see how you could consider that to be a racial slur but "Oh Shit no negro" is far from a racial slur. like holy shit. pick up a copy of the Chappelle show. So No im not gonna apologize and say what i said was racist when it wasnt. hell no this has nothing to do with "Butthurt" this has to do with poor admining and lets discuss that Nigger Horten hes been playing your server for MONTHS at hours at a time. with members of your community in the server ALONG with admins playing at the same time. so explain how that hasn't been checked yet? im not here to play technicalities with you you can throw what ifs or whatever you want all day long. the fact of the matter is Negro is not a word of racial hatred nor is it a "Slang word". But this is by far the largest farce of them all he repeats himself about appealing here. i waste my time joining this website dealing with this nonsense explain that your admin does not seem to have the ability to make this decision for himself showing a lack of experience and im still stuck dealing with him then what the hell is the entire purpose of this appeal system? it seems like a monumental waste of time. as is this discussion where you've done nothing but copy and paste broken parts of my counter argument incorrectly to try and fit some ridiculous loophole i was assuming i was dealing with reasonable level headed adults that the fact that you had to have a discussion weather it was racist or not throws more then enough doubt on it in the first place as far as him just banning people without a warning? its called Common courtesy? its not like i was spamming the chat with NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER like some mountain dew fueled 12 year old rage child and someone was offended id get it but in a lobby where theres literally 13 other people not including my friend and myself over the use of the word negro once. in a conversation that ANYONE reading which had been going on steadily for a large portion of the match could tell was not uttered with malicious intent. my complaint is (that seeing as Horton is still runnning rampant your admins clearly aren't really on much or if they are they dont seem to generally care) anyone with half a brain and an ounce of common sense could see that it was not used racially. its not like Draconix had just joined the game as i said it once again i could understand that then it could have been interpreted as racist without seeing what had been happening before however that wasnt the case. if he had stopped, used some common sense. noticed nothing else was said anywhere near that vicinity again for what? the 30 minutes it took for the ban to be delivered? he'd have realized that it wasnt a racist statement. and don't tell me he wasn't paying attention to the chat before hand because he was responding to individuals the entire time he was on i remember specifically him discussing his stream with someone and telling them why it wasn't up that evening . you want me to apologize? ill apologize for being blunt and at times maybe slightly rude. its simply my temperament but i will not apologize for using racist language when i uttered none.

Well, it's your choice not to apologise. I think this thread can be closed now as everything has been explained to you, but you choose to ignore it.

Im ignoring nothing? you've yet to actually prove to me beyond personal opinion how i said was in any way racist?

Closing thread then. The ban remains permanent.

oh and if anyone does notice a player called 'the n*gger horton' as mentioned above, please ban him too